TOS in black & white?

[voggmo]

I know one early pilot was, but it seems to me that color became viable widespread for tv at just the right time for TOS. My question is how would it have done in black & white? Color seems RATHER important in the show, Red shirts, rank depiction etc.


As late as 1965, CBS provided only 800 hours of color programming the entire year and ABC only 600 hours. As of 1965, only 10% of U.S. homes had a color set. It was not until the late 1960s, over a decade after the standard was set, that color TV sales rose significantly.

http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/C/htmlC/colortelevis/colortelevis.htm

 

[Maurice]

Poorly. As Insisde Star Trek relates, the show did well with people with color TVs, which is one reason NBC kept it around despite low overall ratings. Without that, there wouldn't have been any appeal to parent company RCA.

 

[Sir Rhosis]

All Trek pilots were filmed in color.

Sir Rhosis

 

[Outpost4]

I watched a lot of TOS in black and white. We had two TVs in the house in the '60s, the 25" color set in the living room and a black and white set in my parent's bedroom. If they wanted to watch something on TV, I was banished to their bedroom. Some episodes are black and white ones for me. "Spectre of the Gun" is one of those. The first image that jumps into my head when I think of that episode is a black and white one.

It was OK in black and white. Not nearly as good as in color, but I got through.

 

[Lonestar]

All Trek pilots were filmed in color.

Sir Rhosis

Then what's with that black and white version of the Cage?

 

[diankra]

All Trek pilots were filmed in color.

Sir Rhosis

Then what's with that black and white version of the Cage?

The Cage was, for some time, the only episode of Star Trek thought to be 'missing', in that only a black and white print was known to survive.
A colour print was located sometime in the late 1980s, a year or two after the VHS release of a cut-and-paste reconstruction using colour scenes from The Menagerie where possible, and scenes from the black and white print when not (one side effect of this being that the Keeper's voice would change from scene to scene, as 'he' was redubbed for The Menagerie because original voice Malachi Throne had an onscreen role in the framing plot).

 

[alchemist]

All Trek pilots were filmed in color.

Sir Rhosis

Then what's with that black and white version of the Cage?

The black and white footage likely came from a work print (or daily). And I believe that Trek did film some test footage in black and white in order to test how well the colors reproduced on the black and white television sets of the times. But as Sir Rhosis says, the pilots were filmed in color.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I know one early pilot was, but it seems to me that color became viable widespread for tv at just the right time for TOS. My question is how would it have done in black & white? Color seems RATHER important in the show, Red shirts, rank depiction etc.

In Australia, we didn't get colour TV until 1975. When TOS (and "Batman", "Disney's Wonderful World of Color" and all other colour shows of the 60s, and even TAS in the early 70s) aired here for their first run, it was in b/w. (Frustratingly, "Batman" even had "In Color" in the opening credits - in b&w!)

To celebrate the arrival of colour TV, the network with the rights to TOS selected about ten episodes to show off with in 1975. TAS was screened during the "new" concept of weekday breakfast television.

Another network then bought the rerun rights for TOS in the early 80s and suddenly we had ads on TV that proclaimed, "See the entire series of Star Trek for the first time in colour!"

 

[Therin of Andor]

The black and white footage likely came from a work print (or daily).

Not just "likely". It was indeed the work print.

Roddenberry got custody of that b&w workprint (to show at conventions during the 70s) and Desilu got the colour negatives and positives. After the colour segments were used in "The Menagerie", the editor of the day "lost" the leftover footage - and he didn't remember he still had it until the b&w/colour compile came out on home video (complete with Roddenberry's introduction that mentioned how the colour footage had been long missing).

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

All Trek pilots were filmed in color.

Sir Rhosis

Then what's with that black and white version of the Cage?

The Cage was, for some time, the only episode of Star Trek thought to be 'missing', in that only a black and white print was known to survive.
A colour print was located sometime in the late 1980s, a year or two after the VHS release of a cut-and-paste reconstruction using colour scenes from The Menagerie where possible, and scenes from the black and white print when not (one side effect of this being that the Keeper's voice would change from scene to scene, as 'he' was redubbed for The Menagerie because original voice Malachi Throne had an onscreen role in the framing plot).

Plus don't forget that The Cage was not seen on TV until 1988, and when it finally aired 23 years after it was made, it was in color. The Cage was never shown in the 1960s, but if it was I'm sure the color print is the one that would have been shown.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Plus don't forget that The Cage was not seen on TV until 1988, and when it finally aired 23 years after it was made, it was in color.

Only because segments were used in "The Menagerie" and the editor of the day "lost" the leftover footage - so no complete colour version existed from the 1960s through to about 1987.

The Cage was never shown in the 1960s, but if it was I'm sure the color print is the one that would have been shown.

It wasn't available. Hence, only the b&w workprint was ever shown at conventions at which GR was a guest.

 

[alchemist]

The black and white footage likely came from a work print (or daily).

Not just "likely". It was indeed the work print.

Roddenberry got custody of that b&w workprint (to show at conventions during the 70s) and Desilu got the colour negatives and positives. After the colour segments were used in "The Menagerie", the editor of the day "lost" the leftover footage - and he didn't remember he still had it until the b&w/colour compile came out on home video (complete with Roddenberry's introduction that mentioned how the colour footage had been long missing).

In general, several work print copies were made from each negative. The work prints were used by a lot of the production folks (editors, special effects houses, etc.). Some prints were in black and white and some were in color.

There was not just a single work print made, in particular, of that Cage footage. And at some point, much of it (black and white, color, internegatives, etc.) wound up being cut up and distributed as film clips because its all out there. And I have examples of each in my collection.

 

[Kegek]

My question is how would it have done in black & white? Color seems RATHER important in the show, Red shirts, rank depiction etc.

I believe the technical and economic aspects have already been dealt with adequately, so I'll address this concern: Whether or not colour was important to TOS's storytelling. My opinion? Not all that crucial. It's a very bright show that wears its colours on its sleeve, given the novelty of colour TV at the time. The security guys are the hulking gentlemen with guns who get shot at; that they wear the same colours as the engineers and yeomen is neither here nor there in comprehensibility.

 

[Doug Otte]

My question is how would it have done in black & white? Color seems RATHER important in the show, Red shirts, rank depiction etc.

We had only a B&W TV in my house as well. I think my parents waited until my sister and I were grown and out of the house before they splurged on a color TV - blast them!

And, in my first few years on my own as a bachelor, I only had a B&W, too. Not only was I poor and cheap, but I had a slight disdain for TV.

Anyway, I enjoyed Trek for many years in B&W. It didn't diminish the enjoyment at all. The first few times I saw it in color, it seemed overly garish w/ all the primary colors.

Even after watching it in color for the past several decades, it's easy to bring up mental images of it in B&W.

Doug

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

The Cage was never shown in the 1960s, but if it was I'm sure the color print is the one that would have been shown.

It wasn't available. Hence, only the b&w workprint was ever shown at conventions at which GR was a guest.

Maybe I'm a little confused -- Was the location original color pilot known in 1965 when it was rejected? When did the color print "go missing".

I suppose what I'm asking is this: if The Cage was not rejected, and instead shown on TV in 1965, wouldn't the color print have been available?...or did they lose it right after filming?

 

[Grant]

^^^ They used the color print of 'The Cage' to make the 'The Menagarie' and were careless with the unused footage. They also failed to make a copy of the film to dice up for the menagarie. So in effect they ruined the only available print.

Thus when they were assembling The Cage for video they cobbled together footage from the Menagarie and the B & W workprint for the missing parts.

After they released the 'mixed version'-- they then found another color print, but I believe it was 16mm. They then took color footage from the Menagarie and color footage from the newly found 16mm print and made an 'all-color' version.
But because the 35mm print is mixed with a 16mm print you can see the cuts if you know where to look.

 

[Shaw]

Star Trek was originally designed to work as well in black & white as in color. The changes in uniform colors were designed to make them standout more in color, but in all cases (pilots and series) the colors were close enough in brightness to make all the uniforms seem like the same color in black & white.

It doesn't effect the show itself, but it was designed to make those who watched in black & white think that they were missing out on something special by not watching in color.

A majority of TVs in the 60s were black & white. This question is like asking if some show of the last few years is better because it was broadcast in HD when most people were still using original analog TVs. If the plot is good, most everything else is forgivable. Star Trek was just as awesome in black & white as it was in color.

For those who had no idea what Star Trek looked like in black & white, I offer these examples...

 

[Captain Robert April]

^^^ They used the color print of 'The Cage' to make the 'The Menagarie' and were careless with the unused footage. They also failed to make a copy of the film to dice up for the menagarie. So in effect they ruined the only available print.

Thus when they were assembling The Cage for video they cobbled together footage from the Menagarie and the B & W workprint for the missing parts.

After they released the 'mixed version'-- they then found another color print, but I believe it was 16mm. They then took color footage from the Menagarie and color footage from the newly found 16mm print and made an 'all-color' version.
But because the 35mm print is mixed with a 16mm print you can see the cuts if you know where to look.

BINGO!!

In one of those Murphy's Law instances, the folks at Paramount just knew in their bones that the second the color/b&w version was announced and ready for shipping, someone was gonna come forward and say that they had the missing color footage, and sure enough, that's what happened.

So, to be perfectly honest, there hasn't been a true intact all-color print of "The Cage" since 1967, when the only copy was chopped up to make "The Menagerie".

What's kind of odd is that if you attended one of Roddenberry's lectures in the mid 70's, and you haven't been warned ahead of time that the film was black and white, it might take a minute or two to realize it's not in color, given the rather subdued color scheme they used in the pilot.

 

[Wowbagger]

I remember my Dad saying that, when he finally found Trek in color in the mid-seventies (color TV penetration was not terrific in his particular Philadelphia suburb), he thought this show he had quite enjoyed looked quite a bit too cartoony. My mother, halfway across the country, was discovering the same thing.

Personally, I agree: TOS looks better in B&W. For once, the stupidity of the suits helped the show.

 

[Terengo]

I watched TOS in black and white on an old TV that sometimes filled the screen with static (we called it "snow"), and you'd have to beat on the case to get it to clear up. The show was still great! And I agree that the color version seemed almost too colorful, when I encountered it in reruns in the late 70s.