What are the differences between "The Cage", WNMHGB, and season one bridges. This can include looks and functionality.
TOS bridge evolution/differences
- Thread starter Ronald Held
- Start date
Well to start things off:
The colors are rather muted. More black and silver over all. There were lot's of different shapes of monitors on the upper level of the wall instead of just the large rectangular ones. The captain's chair and the helm/nav console had gooseneck viewers (I forget if the other stations had them or not, but I think they might have). The second pilot had more color but retained the goosenecks. The 1st season lost the goosenecks and added the tall "blue-light" viewer to a few of the stations (notably Spock's library computer station, but also Scotty's seat and it seems like a couple others). Also the full palette of bridge colors was there for the production set. Interestingly there were changes made between season 1 and 2. The blue-light viewers were black in S1 but grey with some greeblies added to it for S2. Also Mr. Sulu's motorized targeting scanner doohicky was not in the S1 set.
That's all I know off the top of my head. I'm sure someone will pipe up with more. I'm interested in this subject myself as I just picked up one of the old AMT bridge model kits at a toy show and I am going to accurize the hell out of it. I just need to determine which version I'm gonna build....
The colors are rather muted. More black and silver over all. There were lot's of different shapes of monitors on the upper level of the wall instead of just the large rectangular ones. The captain's chair and the helm/nav console had gooseneck viewers (I forget if the other stations had them or not, but I think they might have). The second pilot had more color but retained the goosenecks. The 1st season lost the goosenecks and added the tall "blue-light" viewer to a few of the stations (notably Spock's library computer station, but also Scotty's seat and it seems like a couple others). Also the full palette of bridge colors was there for the production set. Interestingly there were changes made between season 1 and 2. The blue-light viewers were black in S1 but grey with some greeblies added to it for S2. Also Mr. Sulu's motorized targeting scanner doohicky was not in the S1 set.
That's all I know off the top of my head. I'm sure someone will pipe up with more. I'm interested in this subject myself as I just picked up one of the old AMT bridge model kits at a toy show and I am going to accurize the hell out of it. I just need to determine which version I'm gonna build....
How's this for a start...
MAIN VIEWER
Cage: Rounded edges
WNMHGB: Rounded edges. Some red greebly on wall below. Blinky lights above screen.
Series: HDTV rectangular screen replaces the old Dumont set. Red greebly moved to some corridor. Tracer lights added below screen.
WALLS TO EITHER SIDE OF MAIN VIEWER
Cage: Not sure if they can be seen
WNMHGB: Wall to left of screen has only an alert light.
Series: Various indicator lights and alert lights
TURBOLIFT ALCOVE
Cage: No alert light. No dedication plaque. Ship diagram present.
WNMHGB: Alert light and dedication plaque added. Ship diagram present.
Series: Same as WNMHGB.
RAILINGS & STAIRS
Cage: Unbroken bridge railing around each side, thus...
No stairs down to the central area from the left and right.
Rails are black
WNMHGB: Rails opened at left and right. Rails painted red. Stairs added.
Series: Same
LARGE VIEWERS (upper sections of outside stations)
Cage: Area around large screens black. Screens also vary in size and shape (sets of two and three small screens set at diagonals, at least one round one at communications)
WNMHGB: Series type large screens, but still set in black, not blue. Which station has two and which has three screens not consistent w/series
Series: Spock and Uhura's stations bet two large screens each. Color on inset around screens blue-gray.
SPOCK'S SCANNER/HOODED VIEWER (edited to correct)
Cage: Nope
WNMHGB: Yes, but black and featureless. A panel of white buttons is immediately below it.
Series: Black and featureless in Season 1. Gray with controls added to left side in Season 2. Bank of white buttons removed for series and replaced by blank panel.
SCOTTY'S SCANNER/HOODED VIEWER (engineering)
Cage: Nope
WHMHGB: Nope
Series: None season 1: Yep season 2-3.
SPOCK'S MOIRE DISPLAY
Cage: unknown
WHMHGB: unknown
Series: Yep. Stops spinning in Season 3.
GOOSENECKS
Cage: Gooseneck viewers at all stations and Captain's chair.
WNMHGB: Goosenecks removed only from Helm/Nav console
Series: All gooseneck viewers removed
CAPTAIN'S CHAIR
Cage: Not elevated. Sits slightly forwards of final location. Gooseneck viewer.
WNMHGB: Pedestal added. Signage added on right arm of Captain's chair. Gooseneck viewer.
Series: Bye Bye gooseneck and signage. Controls on arms vary over course of series.
HELM/NAV CONSOLE
Cage: Black and Gray (no red). Goosnecks! Small alarm light.
WNMHGB: Sides painted red. No goosenecks. Small alarm light.
Series: Sulu's panel changes season 2 to include pop-up targeting scanner. Taller/more tapered alarm light.
STATIONS
Cage: Clearly delineated division between stations (gray outlines). Lower edge of consoles has gray edge.
WNMHGB: Uniformly black console surfaces. Lower edge of consoles has red edge.
Series: Same as WNMHGB
OVERHEAD LIGHT PANELS (alcove)
Cage: Nope
WNMHGB: Nope
Series: Yep!
MAIN VIEWER
Cage: Rounded edges
WNMHGB: Rounded edges. Some red greebly on wall below. Blinky lights above screen.
Series: HDTV rectangular screen replaces the old Dumont set. Red greebly moved to some corridor. Tracer lights added below screen.
WALLS TO EITHER SIDE OF MAIN VIEWER
Cage: Not sure if they can be seen
WNMHGB: Wall to left of screen has only an alert light.
Series: Various indicator lights and alert lights
TURBOLIFT ALCOVE
Cage: No alert light. No dedication plaque. Ship diagram present.
WNMHGB: Alert light and dedication plaque added. Ship diagram present.
Series: Same as WNMHGB.
RAILINGS & STAIRS
Cage: Unbroken bridge railing around each side, thus...
No stairs down to the central area from the left and right.
Rails are black
WNMHGB: Rails opened at left and right. Rails painted red. Stairs added.
Series: Same
LARGE VIEWERS (upper sections of outside stations)
Cage: Area around large screens black. Screens also vary in size and shape (sets of two and three small screens set at diagonals, at least one round one at communications)
WNMHGB: Series type large screens, but still set in black, not blue. Which station has two and which has three screens not consistent w/series
Series: Spock and Uhura's stations bet two large screens each. Color on inset around screens blue-gray.
SPOCK'S SCANNER/HOODED VIEWER (edited to correct)
Cage: Nope
WNMHGB: Yes, but black and featureless. A panel of white buttons is immediately below it.
Series: Black and featureless in Season 1. Gray with controls added to left side in Season 2. Bank of white buttons removed for series and replaced by blank panel.
SCOTTY'S SCANNER/HOODED VIEWER (engineering)
Cage: Nope
WHMHGB: Nope
Series: None season 1: Yep season 2-3.
SPOCK'S MOIRE DISPLAY
Cage: unknown
WHMHGB: unknown
Series: Yep. Stops spinning in Season 3.
GOOSENECKS
Cage: Gooseneck viewers at all stations and Captain's chair.
WNMHGB: Goosenecks removed only from Helm/Nav console
Series: All gooseneck viewers removed
CAPTAIN'S CHAIR
Cage: Not elevated. Sits slightly forwards of final location. Gooseneck viewer.
WNMHGB: Pedestal added. Signage added on right arm of Captain's chair. Gooseneck viewer.
Series: Bye Bye gooseneck and signage. Controls on arms vary over course of series.
HELM/NAV CONSOLE
Cage: Black and Gray (no red). Goosnecks! Small alarm light.
WNMHGB: Sides painted red. No goosenecks. Small alarm light.
Series: Sulu's panel changes season 2 to include pop-up targeting scanner. Taller/more tapered alarm light.
STATIONS
Cage: Clearly delineated division between stations (gray outlines). Lower edge of consoles has gray edge.
WNMHGB: Uniformly black console surfaces. Lower edge of consoles has red edge.
Series: Same as WNMHGB
OVERHEAD LIGHT PANELS (alcove)
Cage: Nope
WNMHGB: Nope
Series: Yep!
Spock's hooded viewer is indeed there in WNMHGB; it can be seen while Spock "listens" to the Valiant's black box.
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=24&pos=40
I would say one welcome change for the post-Pilot TOS was the use of high-backed chairs throughout the ship, including at Bridge stations. Chair aesthetics have an underrated charm in TREK.
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=24&pos=40
I would say one welcome change for the post-Pilot TOS was the use of high-backed chairs throughout the ship, including at Bridge stations. Chair aesthetics have an underrated charm in TREK.
Console surfaces were a flat black finish in WNMHGB, glossy black in the series.
All useful information. If there is anything else, please continue to post it.
this information should be used for a project associated with The Cage on the Big Screen.
this information should be used for a project associated with The Cage on the Big Screen.
Don't forget the difference in sound effects.
Good question. Is there a SFX source for The Cage sounds?
Some of them were around before TOS, and can be heard in various episodes of The Twilight Zone and maybe The Outer Limits too.
Were all of the SFX for TOS "borrowed" from other sources or created as needed?
I like the retro-notion that the outer stations' overhead screens were most often filled with the 23rd century equivalent of a "screen saver." In the two pilots, they seemed to be most active and functional, but that must have turned out to be a production nightmare for a regular series, so they were redesigned static for anything other than a story plot point. Most of those images looked so artistic rather than a WIP astro-scientific study. Of course screen savers weren't even thought of at the time, and may not be particularly necessary 300 years from now. But still, some future psychiatric finding might show that filling the emptiness with lovely and even topical imagery might motivate a ship-locked crew over their long mission.
I have to admit those screens were the single most contributing factor to my "anti TOS bridge" attitude in my youth since they totally faked out an otherwise descent bridge design. I didn't care for the red either, but I've since come around to that aesthetic. And now that I've got multiple computers with monitors that need a state of rest or refreshment, I can see those screens in a better light.
I have to admit those screens were the single most contributing factor to my "anti TOS bridge" attitude in my youth since they totally faked out an otherwise descent bridge design. I didn't care for the red either, but I've since come around to that aesthetic. And now that I've got multiple computers with monitors that need a state of rest or refreshment, I can see those screens in a better light.
Oh yes, I was watching some Twilight Zone DVD's the other day and heard several TOS sound F/X. They are in practically every TZ episode where something from Forbidden Planet is recyclyed.
Basill said:
I like the retro-notion that the outer stations' overhead screens were most often filled with the 23rd century equivalent of a "screen saver." In the two pilots, they seemed to be most active and functional, but that must have turned out to be a production nightmare for a regular series, so they were redesigned static for anything other than a story plot point. Most of those images looked so artistic rather than a WIP astro-scientific study. Of course screen savers weren't even thought of at the time, and may not be particularly necessary 300 years from now. But still, some future psychiatric finding might show that filling the emptiness with lovely and even topical imagery might motivate a ship-locked crew over their long mission.
I have to admit those screens were the single most contributing factor to my "anti TOS bridge" attitude in my youth since they totally faked out an otherwise descent bridge design. I didn't care for the red either, but I've since come around to that aesthetic. And now that I've got multiple computers with monitors that need a state of rest or refreshment, I can see those screens in a better light.
You're on the right track here, I think.
To me, those areas above the station are just single display panels.
Between the pilots and TOS, they background for the "desktop" was changed from black to blue-gray. And the NORMAL display mode would be for either one or two "windows" to be present (complete with faux 3D "frames" just like our "windows" tend to have).
The purpose of the top-level large displays is less for the operator (who mainly uses the strip of smaller displays just above the console top surface), but rather is for the Captain to be able to see, at a glance, all the key details of each workstation without having to walk over to each station and ask the guy working it.
It's most likely that the specifics of how this information is displayed, of what information is displayed, and even of what background color is used on the flat panels, is something that the Captain decides, since it's HIM who's going to be in the center seat reading those at a glance during crises.
Kirk liked a single "overview" panel for most of his stations, but liked a bit more information from his science and comms stations. He liked the blue-gray background. Pike liked multiple smaller images and a black background. Who knows what Captain Garrovick might have liked... Pink background with three images?
If the entire panel is all one display... there's no confusion there at all.
quote]Ziz said:
As for your quest to accurize the AMT model kit, get a second one and study my work so far. There's also more detailed WIP pics here
[/QUOTE]
Hey Ziz! I was thinking about your model while I was planning mine! How's that coming along? I couldn't find it on Cult's site but I must admit I only had about two minutes to look. I have an old kit I plan to canabalize a few parts from, but I think I'll probably scratch-build a lot of the upper deck.
There are a few specific questions I'm trying to figure out:
How many different colors of carpet are there - in which seasons? And where is there carpet? Specifically is there or isn't there carpet on the stair steps? And if so, is it in a small part or is the whole step carpeted? I've also seen ("Relics"[TNG]) the carpet wrapped over the edges of the upper deck, but it seems that the TOS set had solid black edges. Also, is there or isn't there black frames along the individual "decks"? i.e. if you supposed the deck parts of each station were all built wild with the station, then would the borders of each wild section of deck have a black frame, or does the carpet go over the edges and fasten to the side?
I just managed to get ahold of McMaster prints. They seem pretty good, but does anyone know how accurate they are?
--Alex
As for your quest to accurize the AMT model kit, get a second one and study my work so far. There's also more detailed WIP pics here
[/QUOTE]
Hey Ziz! I was thinking about your model while I was planning mine! How's that coming along? I couldn't find it on Cult's site but I must admit I only had about two minutes to look. I have an old kit I plan to canabalize a few parts from, but I think I'll probably scratch-build a lot of the upper deck.
There are a few specific questions I'm trying to figure out:
How many different colors of carpet are there - in which seasons? And where is there carpet? Specifically is there or isn't there carpet on the stair steps? And if so, is it in a small part or is the whole step carpeted? I've also seen ("Relics"[TNG]) the carpet wrapped over the edges of the upper deck, but it seems that the TOS set had solid black edges. Also, is there or isn't there black frames along the individual "decks"? i.e. if you supposed the deck parts of each station were all built wild with the station, then would the borders of each wild section of deck have a black frame, or does the carpet go over the edges and fasten to the side?
I just managed to get ahold of McMaster prints. They seem pretty good, but does anyone know how accurate they are?
--Alex
The Bridge has been on hold for a while - job, family, marriage, finances, time...real stuff. I'll get back to it eventually.
The McMasters are - aside from being the only really complete ones available - very accurate, or accurate enough to not worry about whatever might be wrong. Thing is, no REAL set blues of the Bridge are known to still exist, at least not publicly available, so there's nothing to compare to. McM's are all we've got. I've also heard that Mike got a tour of the actual bridge, which is why his blues are so accurate, but I can't confirm this.
Side note: I used the McM's to build a 1/6 scale command chair. I've since finished this build but have yet to take final pics.
I'll also eventually put the old Bridge content from Cult's site back to my own site - again, life interferes.
Anyway, back to the floor colors. From what I can tell, the ring was always black - or at least REALLY DARK grey - with the center and command deck always tan. There was no black carpeting wrapping around to the sides of the floor wedges because the posts that hold up the red rails wrap around a ledge coming off the edge of the floor deck (see McM page 9). Look under Riley's armpit, and look at the difference in the color and sheen at the edge where the posts are and the floor ring beyond.
Don't use anything other than screen caps or photos from TOS, as most other Bridges, including the one for Relics, are usually fan built, or at best pro built but with short cuts in the interest of time and budget. One thing that's very different about the Relics bridge section is that Scotty walks out of the turbolift and STRAIGHT down the steps into the center. You can see simplified steps in some shots. On the real bridge, there was a railing there. You had to go around behind the command chair or sideways past the Engineering station to the steps on the side.
And while we're on the subject of those steps down to the center, they look like they have carpet sections on them but are not fully carpeted, as they have a color lip around the entire step. The plinth (base) of the command chair also had carpet on it, but I don't think it was intended to look like it had carpet on it...it was done more for sound deadening issues so that they wouldn't have to loop in dialogue that got ruined because Shat's boots clicked as he stepped up or down from the chair.
I tend to think at least half the bridge set was "wild", as there's several times where the camera moves between the ring and the center and you can see the red railing only has two sections to it instead of three - they took out a wild section to get the camera through and just shot it so that the missing edge wouldn't be shown, but obviously their framing wasn't always perfect. Other times, they mixed and matched wedges to make it look like the railing ended properly, but you can still tell there's only two sections. They also tended to re-arrange the sections to create railing where they wanted it for the shot. You can also see what I mean about the side steps in that shot.
The McMasters are - aside from being the only really complete ones available - very accurate, or accurate enough to not worry about whatever might be wrong. Thing is, no REAL set blues of the Bridge are known to still exist, at least not publicly available, so there's nothing to compare to. McM's are all we've got. I've also heard that Mike got a tour of the actual bridge, which is why his blues are so accurate, but I can't confirm this.
Side note: I used the McM's to build a 1/6 scale command chair. I've since finished this build but have yet to take final pics.
I'll also eventually put the old Bridge content from Cult's site back to my own site - again, life interferes.
Anyway, back to the floor colors. From what I can tell, the ring was always black - or at least REALLY DARK grey - with the center and command deck always tan. There was no black carpeting wrapping around to the sides of the floor wedges because the posts that hold up the red rails wrap around a ledge coming off the edge of the floor deck (see McM page 9). Look under Riley's armpit, and look at the difference in the color and sheen at the edge where the posts are and the floor ring beyond.
Don't use anything other than screen caps or photos from TOS, as most other Bridges, including the one for Relics, are usually fan built, or at best pro built but with short cuts in the interest of time and budget. One thing that's very different about the Relics bridge section is that Scotty walks out of the turbolift and STRAIGHT down the steps into the center. You can see simplified steps in some shots. On the real bridge, there was a railing there. You had to go around behind the command chair or sideways past the Engineering station to the steps on the side.
And while we're on the subject of those steps down to the center, they look like they have carpet sections on them but are not fully carpeted, as they have a color lip around the entire step. The plinth (base) of the command chair also had carpet on it, but I don't think it was intended to look like it had carpet on it...it was done more for sound deadening issues so that they wouldn't have to loop in dialogue that got ruined because Shat's boots clicked as he stepped up or down from the chair.
I tend to think at least half the bridge set was "wild", as there's several times where the camera moves between the ring and the center and you can see the red railing only has two sections to it instead of three - they took out a wild section to get the camera through and just shot it so that the missing edge wouldn't be shown, but obviously their framing wasn't always perfect. Other times, they mixed and matched wedges to make it look like the railing ended properly, but you can still tell there's only two sections. They also tended to re-arrange the sections to create railing where they wanted it for the shot. You can also see what I mean about the side steps in that shot.
Just to clarify (and I'm sure everybody already knew this), Scotty doesn't step out of a turbolift at any point. Rather, he enters the bridge simulation from a point directly opposite the turbolift. There's then a shot of him with what in reality is, but perhaps in "reality" isn't part of a turbolift alcove visible behind him, after which he supposedly walks around the bridge along the balcony level until reaching his own station next to the turbolift. All the action then takes place around this station, the turbolift doors, or the command chair - the only parts of the retro-set built.
Which is why the railing had to be cut differently from the "real" one - Scotty couldn't have gone around it to the "real" stairs as those didn't exist on that set.
Since Scotty didn't define a date for his simulation of the no-bloody-alphabet-soup bridge, we could just say it really had this configuration at the time of construction or something.
And yes, I very much like the idea of the upper monitors being "virtual", just large flat monobloc screens on which smaller windows are opened as needed. For all we know, the "real" bridge was just as "wild" as the shooting set, with all sorts of user-definable configuration options available for the individualist captain or bridge officer.Timo Saloniemi
One other difference between WNMHGB and the series is the rotated position of the Captain's chair and the helm:
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=24&pos=83
(In the above image, the chair itself appears to have been removed for a better shot)
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=24&pos=51
Throughout the series, the chair and helm are offset 36 degrees (okay, MGagen, 35.5 degrees ) from the line of the turbolift - the communications console is directly behind the captain, and there is no railing between communications and the captain's chair.
In WNMHGB, the chair/helm rotation appears to be only 18 degrees - a railing blocks half of the communications station, and the chair/helm "straddles the line" between the turbolift and communciations.
Or not. You guys look at the available images and tell me if I'm wrong - I'm about 90 percent on this.
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=24&pos=83
(In the above image, the chair itself appears to have been removed for a better shot)
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=24&pos=51
Throughout the series, the chair and helm are offset 36 degrees (okay, MGagen, 35.5 degrees
) from the line of the turbolift - the communications console is directly behind the captain, and there is no railing between communications and the captain's chair.In WNMHGB, the chair/helm rotation appears to be only 18 degrees - a railing blocks half of the communications station, and the chair/helm "straddles the line" between the turbolift and communciations.
Or not. You guys look at the available images and tell me if I'm wrong - I'm about 90 percent on this.
