Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILERS

[Admiral_Young]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

^ Not really. Phifer's character in "E.R." Dr. Gregg Pratt often clashed with the established long time characters on the show and I don't think was liked very much by fans. Not the actors fault, just the way the character was written I guess.

 

[doubleohfive]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

I liked Pratt a heck of a lot more than I like Rex. Also, I'm not sure I agree that Pratt was disliked by ER fans. I mean, I never heard anything to the contrary or in support of that, but it strikes me as a little disingenuous to claim so either way. I mean, he was on ER for six years. He must have been doing something right...

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

^ True enough...I don't have any real facts to back up my claim but from talking with fellow E.R. fans (the few that stayed with the show all the way through) most of them didn't like Pratt. He was an okay character at times and had his moments in the series but he didn't stand out at all and I happen to like Mekhi. I find Rex much more enjoyable than I did Pratt personally.

 

[23skidoo]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

I have a feeling that if Esther does actually have feelings for Rex as I suggested there isn't going to be a moment where it's revealed. It won't be a Tosh/Owen type deal.

I don't know - the whole Rex/Vera thing sort of derailed that. It's pretty clear in this episode she's soft on Jack (the "you're Category Jack" bit was really cute). Remember that Jack isn't gay, he's pan-sexual so it's possible.

I'll be curious to find out if the Gwen video diary seen in the trailer is included in the UK version of the episode. I've seen a couple of websites advancing the UK showing talking about "Gwen's been given a video recorder again". Either they managed to avoid downloading the US version, or maybe they know something we don't since review copies of these episodes do circulate it seems. In my opinion I think it's just for the trailer because it seems to have been shot with the same set up as the character introduction videos that were circulated in June. (Which reminds me, I saw the Jilly one for the first time on the weekend and she talks about investigating Miracle Day for herself, so I wonder if her mysterious meeting in Categories isn't connected to that...)

I had to chuckle - the Canadian showing of Categories of Life, written by Jane Espenson, was followed directly by a rebroadcast of BSG: The Plan, written by... Jane Espenson.

Alex

 

[PsychoPere]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

The ending was shocking. No way around that. [...]

I wasn't shocked at all. When the topic of "overflow camps" first came up, it was pretty clear the show was reaching for an extermination camp metaphor. When the question of "modules" came up, I thought it was pretty clear those would end up being incinerators. When Jack and Rex both insisted that Juarez didn't have the background necessary to investigate the camp, I figured she would end up "dead" by the end of the episode.

It is a little unfortunate, though. Other than Danes, she's the only character this season I haven't wanted to punch in the face.

^ I share similar feelings as you 005 but except without the "this isn't Torchword, or it's missing something". I get a very clear sense of it being Torchwood.

Oh, it's Torchwood all right - but it's Torchwood circa season one, unfortunately.



At the moment, I have no idea if I'm going to bother watching this week's episode. If I don't, the odds of me paying any attention to a potential fifth season are pretty much gone. Children of Earth made Torchwood into a genuinely compelling television series, and this season so far has squandered all of that intelligence and promise for a return to the idiocy of season one (and two, to a somewhat lesser extent). It took actual effort on my part not to turn off the recording of this episode, delete it, and move on to something else when I was watching it yesterday.

So far the only interesting things to happen in this season have had very little, if anything, to do with the ad hoc Torchwood team itself - i.e., Dane's ascension into a cult figure and the medical issues that Juarez had to tackle. The team itself has done so very little, getting caught up instead in their own boring, pointless nonsense time after time to the point that I want even Jack to just vanish (I've never liked Gwen).

 

[Yminale]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

I have to agree with the critics. It's obvious that they are padding a 6 episode story to cover 10. The pace is languid and it's hard for me to pay attention (say what you want about season 1 to CoE Torchwood, it wasn't boring.) The focus on social commentary is like a sledgehammer and portrays Torchwoods universal theme that "everybody sucks and deserves to die but we're going to save them because we have nothing better to do." Finally Jane Espenson is a hack writer and just because you have Buffy and BSG on your resume doesn't mean you are good.

Finally it was annoying in CoE when Torchwood was hunted by the very people who needed their help. Now it's just becoming cliche. You're telling me that something like this isn't going to get everybody in the planet to work together to find a solution (UNIT, WHO, CDC, CIA, the military etc.)

 

[PsychoPere]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

^ Espenson was good back on Buffy, but a lot of her work since then has been rather hit-or-miss.

 

[Yminale]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

^ Espenson was good back on Buffy, but a lot of her work since then has been rather hit-or-miss.

Correction:
Espenson was good back in the first three seasons of Buffy, but a lot of her work since then has been rather hit-or-miss.

To be fair. Heart of Gold is still one my favorite Firefly episodes (well actually I love all of them )

 

[DWF]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

^ Espenson was good back on Buffy, but a lot of her work since then has been rather hit-or-miss.

Correction:
Espenson was good back in the first three seasons of Buffy, but a lot of her work since then has been rather hit-or-miss.

To be fair. Heart of Gold is still one my favorite Firefly episodes (well actually I love all of them )

Well Espenson only wrote Shindig, which is probably my favorite one.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

Right off the bat, there's a nitpick that's really bothering me in this episode. When inside the overflow camp, Rex and Esther use their real names in the records and documents. The hell? They're both fugitives, being on such a mission is risky enough, but using their actual names? That is just plain stupid.

I accidentally read spoilers about Dr. Juarez, so that didn't surprise me. Still though, she did seem to be a bit more prominent in this episode, so by the Conventions of Television, it seemed obvious she was going to be written out.

So, how do these modules work, anyway. Yeah, I get it, they burn the critically wounded that would be dead anyway. Presumably, they burn the body completely, leaving only ashes. Which basically makes this the only way to actually kill a person, right? Kind of odd, the Evil Corporation makes the world immortal so they can lure people to their camps and then kill them.

I'm really getting confused by Oswald's storyline. Mainly, just why have so many people begun to revere and idolize him? Yeah, Evil Corporation is involved, obviously, but not everyone is enraptured by him, nor as proven by the people yelling insults at him during the rally. So what is it that makes the people who do praise and worship him praise and worship him?

It's still an entertaining enough episode, but now that we're half way through the storyline, they need to start answering questions instead of raising more.

 

[Shazam!]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

^ Russell stated in interviews prior to coming up with Miracle Day that it was never his intention to "top" Children of Earth but to tell a compelling story. Much like Christopher Nolan's statements prior to "The Dark Knight Rises".

Urgh, that's like, the most arrogant thing anyone can say ever.

It's like if it does top CoE then RTD has apparently shit gold without even trying but then if it doesn't.. well, it wasn't supposed to.

Give me a break.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

How's that arrogant. If anything, it's lowering expectations. If he said "All my stories are better than the last," that would be arrogant.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

^ Exactly. Which is most likely why he stated it in the first place. Same with Nolan about Batman 3 before it came up (about not trying to top their previous works)

 

[PsychoPere]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

Right off the bat, there's a nitpick that's really bothering me in this episode. When inside the overflow camp, Rex and Esther use their real names in the records and documents. The hell? They're both fugitives, being on such a mission is risky enough, but using their actual names? That is just plain stupid.

I'm assuming that Esther only used her real first name, not her real surname as well. As for Rex, definitely a stupid move and not in keeping with how much emphasis in past episodes he's placed on proper field craft.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

Right off the bat, there's a nitpick that's really bothering me in this episode. When inside the overflow camp, Rex and Esther use their real names in the records and documents. The hell? They're both fugitives, being on such a mission is risky enough, but using their actual names? That is just plain stupid.

I'm assuming that Esther only used her real first name, not her real surname as well. As for Rex, definitely a stupid move and not in keeping with how much emphasis in past episodes he's placed on proper field craft.

Which he's broken many times. Calls to his booty call, saying where he is, visiting dear old dad. So, it's not surprising that he would continue to disregard proper field craft.

 

[PsychoPere]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

Yes, he certainly does talk a good game about competence while berating everyone else for their lack of same. Such hypocrisy is one reason I wish the pole had impaled him before the miracle...

 

[Yminale]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

Right off the bat, there's a nitpick that's really bothering me in this episode. When inside the overflow camp, Rex and Esther use their real names in the records and documents. The hell? They're both fugitives, being on such a mission is risky enough, but using their actual names? That is just plain stupid.

I'm assuming that Esther only used her real first name, not her real surname as well. As for Rex, definitely a stupid move and not in keeping with how much emphasis in past episodes he's placed on proper field craft.

Plus these camps are overwhelmed and badly managed. I remember an experiment in which someone got false id that said Osama Bin Laden and he was able to buy a plane ticket and board a plane SEVERAL times. There is no such thing as perfect security.

 

[Yminale]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

Yes, he certainly does talk a good game about competence while berating everyone else for their lack of same. Such hypocrisy is one reason I wish the pole had impaled him before the miracle...

I think people need to give Rex a break. As Jack stated he's faking it. All that bravado is covering up his fear, confusion and pain.

 

[Yminale]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

So, how do these modules work, anyway. Yeah, I get it, they burn the critically wounded that would be dead anyway. Presumably, they burn the body completely, leaving only ashes. Which basically makes this the only way to actually kill a person, right?

I don't think so. Even if your body is destroyed, your consciousness or "soul" still remains. Think about how horrible it is to be in a disembodied state.

Kind of odd, the Evil Corporation makes the world immortal so they can lure people to their camps and then kill them.

It actually makes perfect sense to me. Basically create a two tier society, healthy and sick (to create cognitive dissonance). Sponge of the sick until they become unprofitable and then dispose of them. In America, we call it for profit health care . It is widely held belief that Big Pharma makes the most money treating chronic illness. Think how much money you can make if people are chronically ill for decades or even centuries.

I'm really getting confused by Oswald's storyline. Mainly, just why have so many people begun to revere and idolize him? Yeah, Evil Corporation is involved, obviously, but not everyone is enraptured by him, nor as proven by the people yelling insults at him during the rally. So what is it that makes the people who do praise and worship him praise and worship him?

Oswald sells hope. People's need for hope especially in times of crisis can be almost addictive. It's as simple as that. Him being an EXECUTED man give him a certain amount of authenticity.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Re: Torchwood: MD 4x05 - The Categories Of Life (Grade/Discuss) SPOILE

Plus these camps are overwhelmed and badly managed. I remember an experiment in which someone got false id that said Osama Bin Laden and he was able to buy a plane ticket and board a plane SEVERAL times. There is no such thing as perfect security.

Well, I'd probably feel safe being on a plane with OBL as I doubt that he or any of the other leaders of Al Qaeda would ever have the balls to do themselves in. They need help in being shown an exit. I agree with your point though.