Tony Dead?!? Fuggedaboutit!

[Push The Button]

Tony Soprano became a likeable character for so many fans of the show, despite his criminal background and the gallons of blood that were on his hands. He was often the only person in the room that had a trace of a conscience, which is admirable, I suppose, but this didn't make him worthy of anyone's respect, much less admiration.

My interpretation of the ending is that he was shot and killed in the diner, the quick change to black is his life ending, from his point of view. To which I say, he got what he deserved.

 

[T'Bonz]

One of the reasons I don't watch much in the way of TV series anymore is because when they end, more often than not, the ending sucks. It's like the writers want to give the giant eff you to the fans who supported them.

So fuck them.

Except for the writers on Six Feet Under. That ending was absolutely perfect for the show.

Tony dead? I could argue it both ways but since the show ended without us getting an answer on air, we have to make our own ending.

I figured they wouldn't kill him in the last ep, but drag his ass to jail for a while. So I was wrong.

 

[Forbin]

I think he was a replicant.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ James Gandolfini as Roy Batty. I'd have paid good money to see that.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

In the special after Breaking Bad's final episode, Vince Gilligan said something that was obviously referencing the Sopranos ending along the lines of "An ambiguous ending was right for the Sopranos, but it wouldn't have been right for Breaking Bad". I agree with him there.

You could easily see the show as a series of foreshadowing the events leading to Tony's death. You could equally see it as a series of foreshadowing the events leading to Tony's arrest, or an introspective journey of self discovery for a gangster learning to properly compartmentalize his emotions and his morality to achieve his desired goals. Hence, we see suspicious stuff going on in the background and his family about to unite when the scene cuts out. Some gangsters get whacked in their prime, some go to jail and some manage to live the life and die of natural causes.

I also suspect it was left ambiguous for the same reason Silvio was left in a coma where he would probably never recover but could possibly: At the time they wanted to preserve the option of a Sopranos movie.

 

[Destructor]

My interpretation of the ending is that he was shot and killed in the diner, the quick change to black is his life ending, from his point of view. To which I say, he got what he deserved.

I agree. And I have to say, I think if the camera had kept shooting to see Tony shot in front of his wife and kids it would have been an utterly shit ending (even though I think that's what 'happened') because the focus would have been on their trauma, not on Tony's fate. Which makes the ending even more appropriate, since the show was basically Ton'y story and at THAT point Tony's story would have been over (as it was).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

if the camera had kept shooting to see Tony shot in front of his wife and kids it would have been an utterly shit ending (even though I think that's what 'happened') because the focus would have been on their trauma

You don't think Jacket Guy went after them too?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The show always makes a big deal about the families being protected and taken care of. Just like Tony supported Pussy's wife financially, if Tony was in fact whacked there, Carmela was probably supported too.

But I highly doubt that Chase had any one of the possible specific endings in mind.

 

[Destructor]

You don't think Jacket Guy went after them too?

Nope. He shot Tony in the head and walked out, leaving Tony' family screaming and covered in blood. Do you think that would have made a better ending? Seriously.

But I highly doubt that Chase had any one of the possible specific endings in mind.

I'm pretty sure he built the entire season, very carefully, to foreshadow and explain the final moment. He may not have thought too much about what happened next (since Tony's story was over), but it's clear that he meant for him to die.

 

[Ethros]

If that did happen you have to wonder what became of AJ afterwards. What with his depression in the last half of Season 6 n all

(and although it had some great moments acting wise, esp the pool scene, it really did go nowhere in the last couple of episodes. Basically he gets a new job and girlfriend in the last 10 minutes and suddenly he's fine.)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

You don't think Jacket Guy went after them too?

Nope. He shot Tony in the head and walked out, leaving Tony' family screaming and covered in blood. Do you think that would have made a better ending? Seriously.

No, not "better," of course not. I just would not expect an assassin to leave any witnesses. Especially not family members of his intended target.

Think of it this way: What would be his motivation for leaving them alive? Any one of them could have one day avenged Tony's death in some manner. If Jacket Guy eliminates all surviving Sopranos, there can't be any retaliation.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if, providing there was enough ammo, he went after everyone in the restaurant.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

That would be pretty sloppy work for an assassin to murder somebody in a context where he would be forced to have large amounts of collateral damage.

If there was an assassin who shot Tony at that moment, he probably shot him under the Godfather theory of the witnesses being too shocked to remember anything helpful. Remember that there were witnesses for Bobby's murder too who were not killed. You decided to assassinate somebody in a public place you do it quickly and immediately get out, staying around to track down a dozen people running for their lives in a million directions is just dumb. As for the motives for leaving the family alive, if he kills the Sopranos family, then he's declaring open season on his own family. If Tony Soprano's kids aren't immune from assassination neither are his own.

I disagree that the season was meant to choreograph the moment of Tony being shot. At least not any more so than any of the other possible fates. It's certainly possible that even though Carmine Jr was not interested in revenge, some other surviving friends of Leotardo carried out his assassination plans. But the actions of jacket guy were clearly staged to be ambiguous.

 

[Destructor]

I disagree that the season was meant to choreograph the moment of Tony being shot. At least not any more so than any of the other possible fates. It's certainly possible that even though Carmine Jr was not interested in revenge, some other surviving friends of Leotardo carried out his assassination plans. But the actions of jacket guy were clearly staged to be ambiguous.

Even if Jacket Guy hadn't been in the scene AT ALL I still would have interpreted the ending as Tony being shot. The Jack Guy just double-secures what the season had been saying was going to happen all along. Look, I don't have the time to go over all the reasons why, so I'll let this guy do it for me:

http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/

(here is an abbreviated version of the same argument, if you find the above link too exhaustive: http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/the-sopranos/27194/explaining-the-sopranos-final-scene)

 

[JirinPanthosa]

That's a great article, and I think the best argument that Tony died in that scene was the analysis of Bobby's murder. "Where does Bobby feel most safe? At the model train store." Tony feels most safe with his family, and we saw a scene of Tony feeling very safe before it cuts out, which is exactly when they would choose to whack him.

I just don't see any definitive proof in that scene, just a lot of speculation, and if I were to closely analyze the scene I bet I could come up with just as good an argument for either of the other two fates. But when I first saw the episode, my analysis was that it was setting up the audience to expect a final scene where Tony's family is fully assembled and then to take it away from them to demonstrate the unpredictability of Tony's life.

 

[Destructor]

There was a scene quite early in the season where someone says: "You never hear the bullet that gets you." I think this article references it. As soon as I saw that scene, I pretty much knew Tony would not make it.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Still, that's very speculative and it's a huge leap between 'A comment which could be interpreted as foreboding' and taking a certain stance on an ambiguous scene. I think you're taking one of the many possible endings as the one certain ending because you feel it tells the best narrative.

Your analysis is based on intuited interpretation of the narrative form, not based on anything concrete or definitive.

Although if Tony did die I think I know who did it: Patsy. He'd been waiting for years for the opportunity to avenge his brother and now he has an opportunity to blame it on a hit order given by Phil Leotardo before his death.

 

[Destructor]

Your analysis is based on intuited interpretation of the narrative form, not based on anything concrete or definitive.

I understand what you're saying, and it was purposefully built to be ambiguous so obviously there's no definitive answer. All that said, I disagree. The analysis seems pretty clear, if you analyze the whole season, that all signs point to Tony being killed. No signs point to Tony not being killed. All things being equal: Tony was killed.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

If a viewer needs to be shown Tony actually being shot, despite an entire season's worth of foreshadowing, it's not David Chase's job to spell it out for you.

 

[Forbin]

Actually, that pretty much is his job.

 

[Destructor]

Actually, that pretty much is his job.

But that's what we're saying: he did spell it out. He spelled it out meticulously. The manner in which he did so was a cut to black, meaning: Tony was shot and killed. If you're saying he needed to actually depict Tony's blood sprayed across his family in a horrific scene just so there was no confusion, well, I can only disagree.