Tomorrow is Yesterday

[Doug Otte]

After slogging through new Trek for a while (Disco, Picard, Lower Decks, and Prodigy), I decided to cleanse my palate the other night and watched Tomorrow is Yesterday on blu-ray.

As always, it's a totally charming episode. Of course, there are big technical issues, but any time travel plot does.

Christopher seemed shocked at seeing female crew members. Of course, there weren't any on early NASA missions. Yet, some women had been considered as astronauts. The audience may not have known about it then, but I would think he would have. And, of course the Soviets sent a woman to space in 1963.

One thing I don't think I ever thought about before: At the beginning of the episode, they're all knocked out on the floor. Kirk and Spock roughly pick everyone up by the shoulder and dump them back in their seats. Yet, when they return to their own time at the end, they seem fine.

Oh, one other thing: When the base commander threatens to lock up Kirk for 200 years, Kirk muses "That ought to be just about right". I also watched TMP the other night, and Decker says Voyager is over 300 years old. Yet another example of timelines that don't match in Trek...

 

[Ssosmcin]

You could argue that the force that ripped them through time before the episode proper took them by surprise. They were simply trying to break free of the "black star" and with a greater gravitational force, they probably all got hit a lot harder. Or something.

As for the 200 years line, you could choose to take it as a joke and leave it at that. This episode is a really nice lighthearted change of pace, one of Star Trek's comedies that really gets left off the list when we name those funny episodes. Probably because it's not a full blown sitcoms like those in the 2nd season.

Personal note: this is the only episode where I prefer the watch the 2006 effects version. It actually helps the finale make sense and is quite exciting.

 

[Warped9]

I wouldn’t get hung up on the 200 years line. It’s not meant to be literal.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Besides it being a joke, Kirk didn't say "exactly right," he said "just about right." Much closer than he is then to the correct time, though still imprecise.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Personal note: this is the only episode where I prefer the watch the 2006 effects version. It actually helps the finale make sense and is quite exciting.

What about "Wink of an Eye" and "The Cloud Minders"? Those are vastly better in TOS-R. And the CGI view from Pike's hospital room in "The Mengerie Part 1" is better than the little building flats in a window box.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I wouldn’t get hung up on the 200 years line. It’s not meant to be literal.

Probably wasn't meant to be literal in "Space Seed" either but its there. Also, there wasn't another episode which ever made an effort to correct the so called lines which weren't literal. Why should we take anything literal in TOS since whatever's established later was REALLY meant to be??? Lets add the Starship Class plaque while we're at it.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Probably wasn't meant to be literal in "Space Seed" either but its there. Also, there wasn't another episode which ever made an effort to correct the so called lines which weren't literal. Why should we take anything literal in TOS since whatever's established later was REALLY meant to be??? Lets add the Starship Class plaque while we're at it.

In WNMHGB, they say the S.S. Valiant reached the galaxy's edge 200 years prior to the episode. That cannot refer to a space mission of the 1960s. Setting the show 300 years ahead gives the timeline more room to breathe, if barely enough.

 

[Guy Gardener]

After slogging through new Trek for a while (Disco, Picard, Lower Decks, and Prodigy), I decided to cleanse my palate the other night and watched Tomorrow is Yesterday on blu-ray.

As always, it's a totally charming episode. Of course, there are big technical issues, but any time travel plot does.

Christopher seemed shocked at seeing female crew members. Of course, there weren't any on early NASA missions. Yet, some women had been considered as astronauts. The audience may not have known about it then, but I would think he would have. And, of course the Soviets sent a woman to space in 1963.

One thing I don't think I ever thought about before: At the beginning of the episode, they're all knocked out on the floor. Kirk and Spock roughly pick everyone up by the shoulder and dump them back in their seats. Yet, when they return to their own time at the end, they seem fine.

Oh, one other thing: When the base commander threatens to lock up Kirk for 200 years, Kirk muses "That ought to be just about right". I also watched TMP the other night, and Decker says Voyager is over 300 years old. Yet another example of timelines that don't match in Trek...

Have you seen old people do math in their head?

Mother #uckers all memorized their 15 times tables. I only had to learn up to 12, and my nephew only had to learn up to the 10 times tables.

By the time Kirk is in grade school, I doubt that anyone should be expected to learn past their three timetables, or learn to add double digit numbers, and higher.

Too many calculators.

 

[Warped9]

Here is an interesting tidbit.

In my thread Unseen TOS in the Arts forum I was speculating when the Valiant referenced in WNMHGB could have disappeared. This was tied into what the Valiant could have looked like if Matt Jefferies had been tasked with coming up with an image of the ship for display on one of Spock’s overhead bridge displays.

Never mind the final design I came up with. If we accept the Valiant was a FTL ship then when might Jefferies have conjectured Earth had FTL ships to help him come up with a design?

Remember the episode references about 200 years since the Valiant disappeared, not 200 years since the 1960s. Jefferies knew FTL starflight would not happen for at least several decades if not more likely a century (optimistically). So that puts FTL ships no earlier than the mid 21st century, similar to the reference for FTL ships in Forbidden Planet.

And so at least mid 21st century for FTL ships + 200 years until the Valiant’s recorder marker is found by the Enterprise = mid 23rd century.

So even without establishing anything onscreen before the series was even sold Star Trek was likely already set in the 23rd century.

 

[Doug Otte]

I should have known my comment about 200 vs. 300 years would set off a frenzy!

I also realize I never stated my main thought: after watching some ridiculously convoluted time travel/multiverse plots in current Trek, this first (if you don't count the end of The Naked Time) time travel episode was much more enjoyable and charming than most that have followed. Of course, we have to ignore the brain-twisting illogic found in all time travel plots.

Carry on!

 

[Ssosmcin]

What about "Wink of an Eye" and "The Cloud Minders"? Those are vastly better in TOS-R. And the CGI view from Pike's hospital room in "The Mengerie Part 1" is better than the little building flats in a window box.

Nope because none of those changes made a difference to the plot or clarified a confusingly illustrated sequence. They were just extra sauce. Stratos was just fine as is and the Eminiar 7 background never bothered me in "Wink of an Eye." The view outside Pike's room was seen for such a short time, it barely matters. The slingshot effect was the resolution of the crisis. It was arguably the most important sequence in the episode. All of the fantastic Alexander Courage music in the world couldn't make up for the static shots of the big Enterprise model and no shots of the sun. The new effects clear up what they were doing and work beautifully with the score.

 

[Ssosmcin]

In WNMHGB, they say the S.S. Valiant reached the galaxy's edge 200 years prior to the episode. That cannot refer to a space mission of the 1960s. Setting the show 300 years ahead gives the timeline more room to breathe, if barely enough.

But....but...Tarbolde was writing poems on the Canopius planet back in 1996!

 

[UssGlenn]

Lets add the Starship Class plaque while we're at it.

Starship Class vessels were all named after previous famous starships. It was only after Starfleet standardized class names that it was changed to Constitution Class. I'm just going to keep repeating this till someone makes it official.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

But....but...Tarbolde was writing poems on the Canopius planet back in 1996!

Tarbolde may have been an alien, and we're reading the poem in translation. And his nom de plume may be the Anglicized version of his alien name.

Or he might have been a human on Earth in 1996, and "on the Canopius planet" is how they referred to a fancifully named art commune in Nevada near Area 51. In this case, he was a UFO hippie.

https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Phineas_Tarbolde

 

[Neopeius]

Tarbolde may have been an alien, and we're reading the poem in translation. And his nom de plume may be the Anglicized version of his alien name.

Or he might have been a human on Earth in 1996, and "on the Canopius planet" is how they referred to a fancifully named art commune in Nevada near Area 51. In this case, he was a UFO hippie.

https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Phineas_Tarbolde

"Tune in, turn on, Put Wings on Your Love, Slender Feathered Things..."

Christopher seemed shocked at seeing female crew members. Of course, there weren't any on early NASA missions. Yet, some women had been considered as astronauts. The audience may not have known about it then, but I would think he would have. And, of course the Soviets sent a woman to space in 1963.

Women were never considered as astronauts beyond vague speculation in '58-9, though Jeri Cobb fought valiantly for it (as did Glenn, so far as he was able, though it has become fashionable to say the opposite).

In contrast, the Soviets had put up one woman cosmonaut, so it would be in keeping for Captain Christopher to look especially askance at an obviously American spaceship with a Russian crew demographic...

 

[Shawnster]

Christopher seemed shocked at seeing female crew members. Of course, there weren't any on early NASA missions. Yet, some women had been considered as astronauts. The audience may not have known about it then, but I would think he would have. And, of course the Soviets sent a woman to space in 1963.

Aware of is not the same as expecting /comfortable with. It's one thing to know somethings clinically and another to experience first hand.

And he may have believed Valentina Tereshkova was just a propaganda publicity stunt.

 

[Qonundrum]

After slogging through new Trek for a while (Disco, Picard, Lower Decks, and Prodigy), I decided to cleanse my palate the other night and watched Tomorrow is Yesterday on blu-ray.

As always, it's a totally charming episode. Of course, there are big technical issues, but any time travel plot does.

Christopher seemed shocked at seeing female crew members. Of course, there weren't any on early NASA missions. Yet, some women had been considered as astronauts. The audience may not have known about it then, but I would think he would have. And, of course the Soviets sent a woman to space in 1963.

One thing I don't think I ever thought about before: At the beginning of the episode, they're all knocked out on the floor. Kirk and Spock roughly pick everyone up by the shoulder and dump them back in their seats. Yet, when they return to their own time at the end, they seem fine.

Oh, one other thing: When the base commander threatens to lock up Kirk for 200 years, Kirk muses "That ought to be just about right". I also watched TMP the other night, and Decker says Voyager is over 300 years old. Yet another example of timelines that don't match in Trek...

A fun episode, definitely, but the year inconsistencies make for great fun.

"Space Seed" cites 200 years as well. So does "The Wrath of Khan" despite the opening credits rolling with "In the 23rd century..." complete with doo-doo-doo music...

On the flip side, "The Squire of Gothos" screws it up royally in the opposite direction - Napoleon, for example, was doing his thing in ~1800. "You're seeing events 900 years distant" is a nice piece of real science, but Kirk's era isn't quite the 28th century. The Harpichord was invented in the mid-1600s and not in Russia (contrary to anything Chekov might say) but had been used in the late-1700s as well... Since Trelane was not plucking anything out of random and concrete timeframes are exposed via exposition, he was peeping at Earth in the latter-half of the 18th century, if not very early-19th.

I'm sure there's a fun way to average out the numbers, but early-TOS had no consistency and was written by the seat of its pants, at warp speed. There's no real way to do it, except each shiny new episode is in its own shiny new alternate timeline. It's merely 1960s television working by the seat of their pants and with no set of mandates from the get-go.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

On the flip side, "The Squire of Gothos" screws it up royally in the opposite direction - Napoleon, for example, was doing his thing in ~1800. "You're seeing events 900 years distant" is a nice piece of real science, but Kirk's era isn't quite the 28th century. The Harpichord was invented in the mid-1600s and not in Russia (contrary to anything Chekov might say) but had been used in the late-1700s as well... Since Trelane was not plucking anything out of random and concrete timeframes are exposed via exposition, he was peeping at Earth in the latter-half of the 18th century, if not very early-19th.

I'm sure there's a fun way to average out the numbers, but early-TOS had no consistency and was written by the seat of its pants, at warp speed. There's no real way to do it, except each shiny new episode is in its own shiny new alternate timeline. It's merely 1960s television working by the seat of their pants and with no set of mandates from the get-go.

That's what I used to think, that you can't make sense of the "Gothos" time references. But you can, if you realize that Starfleet officers are not always as smart as they think they are. Here's how I frame the explanation:

• Jaeger's hasty assessment of Trelane's period decor is influenced by knowing that we encountered Gothos 900 light years from Earth. Jaeger wouldn't know one century's decor from another; he simply jumps to conclusions and figures that the Earth period being imitated must line up with the distance in light years. But it doesn't.

• The planet Gothos is Trelane's toy. He flies it through space at will— it can even outrun and corner the Enterprise. Trelane can go anywhere he wants to. He probably studied the Earth up close at various times over the centuries, saw a crazy quilt of mixed period references, and then flew off to distant reaches of the galaxy.

Conclusion: Gothos just happened to be 900 light years from Earth when the Enterprise ran across it. That tells us nothing about what century Kirk is in, because Trelane flies that planet around at warp speed. Thus "The Squire of Gothos" presents no problem at all for dating the series.

 

[Warped9]

That's what I used to think, that you can't make sense of the "Gothos" time references. But you can, if you realize that Starfleet officers are not always as smart as they think they are. Here's how I frame the explanation:

• Jaeger's hasty assessment of Trelane's period decor is influenced by knowing that we encountered Gothos 900 light years from Earth. Jaeger wouldn't know one century's decor from another; he simply jumps to conclusions and figures that the Earth period being imitated must line up with the distance in light years. But it doesn't.

• The planet Gothos is Trelane's toy. He flies it through space at will— it can even outrun and corner the Enterprise. Trelane can go anywhere he wants to. He probably studied the Earth up close at various times over the centuries, saw a crazy quilt of mixed period references, and then flew off to distant reaches of the galaxy.

Conclusion: Gothos just happened to be 900 light years from Earth when the Enterprise ran across it. That tells us nothing about what century Kirk is in, because Trelane flies that planet around at warp speed. Thus "The Squire of Gothos" presents no problem at all for dating the series.

Wow! I like it! A great explanation!

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I have to add some nuance to explain this exchange:

JAEGER: Notice the period, Captain. Nine hundred light years from Earth. It's what might be seen through a viewing scope if it were powerful enough.
TRELANE: Ah, yes. I've been looking in on the doings on your lively little Earth.
KIRK: Then you've been looking in on the doings nine hundred years past.
TRELANE: Oh, really? Have I made an error in time? How fallible of me. Oh, I did so want to make you feel at home. I'm quite proud of the detail.

Kirk doesn't know when the harpsicord was invented, but he has studied military history and he knows Napoleon was an 18th and 19th century man. Thus he knows Jaeger is wrong. Kirk instantly intuits that Trelane has a faster source of information about Earth.

But it doesn't matter. Jaeger doesn't matter. Kirk is playing three-dimensional chess with a super-being, and it might help to be underestimated. He wants Trelane to be overconfident and off guard, so he plays dumb.

Trelane for his part is playing cat and mouse. He wants to toy with Kirk, not discourage him. So if Kirk is dumb, Trelane will pretend to play on that level to keep the game going ("Relax, I'm error prone just like you apes."). Or maybe Trelane knows Kirk is playing dumb, and he replies in kind ("How fallible of me") to match Kirk's strategy. This would be Trelane going, "You think you're fooling me? I do the fooling on this planet, buddy."

And that's why neither Kirk nor Trelane sets Jaeger straight. They're busy making moves against each other.