Tom was Too damn easy on Chakotay?

[Guy Gardener]

The goal was for Tom to get himself grabbed by the scruff of his neck and spaced.

I'm amazed he saw results.

What do you assume were Tom's nuclear options?

 

[Vanyel]

HUH?

 

[Guy Gardener]

There was a tryptic of episodes where Tom pretended to be an asshole who was picking on Chakotay until Tom Finally said "Screw This I'm going to live with hedgehogs and have lots of hedgehog sex!" and Chakotay replied "Oh thank God he's going because I was so put out by the hurtful bullying, that I almost sent him a strongly worded letter about how I'm an angry warrior." Which was all a ruse to weasel his way into Seska and the Kazon's embrace so that he could work out who the spy was on Voyager feeding Seska sensitive and dangerous information about Voyager to their dread enemies.

So, really.

Tom was on that Talaxian convoy for a day?

It wasn't longer than a day.

A day, a night and maybe a morning?

How much Hedgehog sex did he have?

 

[Timewalker]

Chakotay was only ever an "angry warrior" with Janeway.

It's a good thing they never got together in canon (yeah, I know there's a megaton of fanfic that has them happily married, with kids)... at some point, Janeway would surely have told him to STFU about that angry warrior crap. Why didn't he just say, "Captain, I used to hate you. Then I kinda liked you. Now I want you. Let's go to bed."

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm pretty sure he wanted to do it with her in the bath first, which is why he made her that tub.

 

[CoffeeAddict]

Chakotay was only ever an "angry warrior" with Janeway.

It's a good thing they never got together in canon (yeah, I know there's a megaton of fanfic that has them happily married, with kids)... at some point, Janeway would surely have told him to STFU about that angry warrior crap. Why didn't he just say, "Captain, I used to hate you. Then I kinda liked you. Now I want you. Let's go to bed."

I like that idea better than the "ancient legend" he made up. I know some people think that kind of thing is uber romantic, but when it comes to romance, Janeway seems like the type that would prefer a more direct approach.

 

[Violet.Phoenix]

Chakotay was only ever an "angry warrior" with Janeway.

It's a good thing they never got together in canon (yeah, I know there's a megaton of fanfic that has them happily married, with kids)... at some point, Janeway would surely have told him to STFU about that angry warrior crap. Why didn't he just say, "Captain, I used to hate you. Then I kinda liked you. Now I want you. Let's go to bed."

I like that idea better than the "ancient legend" he made up. I know some people think that kind of thing is uber romantic, but when it comes to romance, Janeway seems like the type that would prefer a more direct approach.

I agree, Janeway always seemed to be more of a person who liked to be told things straight-up, not through some metaphorical legend.

 

[Guy Gardener]

She was being dumped.

In the history of the world how many men have dumped their girlfriend so kindly?

Just because Janeway was ignorant or carefree about the effect she had on him, about the world they shared together intimately in his imagination, it doesn't matter that Kathy had him by his grapes and the Indian was sick of it. He was infuriated, frustrated and so comtemptified that he was entirely sackless whenever she was cooing or even breathing in his proximity.

A line in the sand!

NO FURTHER!

This was his finest hour!

And sadly...

Pathetically...

This was his finest hour.

 

[CoffeeAddict]

What? Um...no!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Spoiler: i saw exactly the same thing on the final of In plain Sight the other night...

"Mary you have to release me, if you keep saying that you need me, i'm going to come i' can't stop myself, but you need to free me so that i can get married and live happily ever after with some one else."

How do you object to my understanding of the scene?

It wasn't "Please baby, just one more chance, I know I can do good by you" and it wasn't "Don't you do it, don't you do it, don't you make Chuckles choke a bitch!" and it wasn't "The real reason we couldn't connect and I wouldn't try hard enough is because, I just figured it out, seeing as how you're the last woman on the planet and I'm still not motivated, is that I must really, really, really like boys." and it wasn't "You're afraid of how awesome we'd be together, you're so fucking anhedonic that the barest concept of that much happiness glancing across your bitter soul gives you the runs. You're not woman enough for what I have to offer and I'm sick of waiting so I'm going to find a monkey to have sex with too like it seems you are already doing." and it wasn't "it's not me it's you." and in Honour of that short twat George Lucas "I guess I've always know deep down inside but Kathryn, you're my sister."

All the time, in the real world there are literally dozens of women who do not know that they are my girlfriend I should get around to dumping, but lets face it, isn't an imaginary relationship better than nothing?

That's what I didn't get about Cyrano.

Christaian died, and Cyrano still waited 30 years to admit to Roxanne that it was he who wrote all those love letters on his fricking deathbed!

What a fucking putz.

 

[Violet.Phoenix]

I disagree with you, Guy Gardener. That scene was not Chakotay dumping Kathryn and saying "You're fine, but I'm carrying a torch for the Borg girl we're going to pick up in a year or so"; it was him trying to express his feelings for Janeway in an extremely cheesy way.

And that was not his finest hour. Come on, he had much better scenes in "Basics" and "The Fight".

 

[Guy Gardener]

I doubted myself and reread the scene about an hour ago.

What I understood this time through is that Chakotay "gets off" on doing what she tells him to do.

The indefatigable definition of a bondage gimp.

You see, I knew that he was putting limits on their relationship, that Chakotay was saying pooh pooh to rumpypumpy, and I thought that because he was saying that he didn't see sex as a winnable endgame any more, that it was time to settle for a limited relationship "like" friendship, but really, as a gimp, sex was never his goal, becuase as a gimp he's brought to orgasm every time she tells him what to do and how to do it. Sex was a bridge too far that would have ruined the relationship that he wanted from Kathryn.

I was too naive to understand this last time I saw the show, assuming that you can't have a healthy romantic relationship without a physical release, but it turned out that Chajotay's physical release isn't from his groin or his lips, but from treating his selfworth like a punching bag, and what I thought was back-pedalling had actually been rape until this point.

Kathryn did not know that she was constantly tickling his errogenous zone until this exact second when he explained what he needed from her. that she couldn't be in charge with out the indian falling deeper in love with her.

It's like how in Ally McBeal most women didn't know to hide their waddles from Richard Fish.

What Kathryn did with this information from this point was up to her, but the only way to back away from a Gimp is to force equality on him and make sure that you don't ever give any orders, and some times even arrange the situation so the gimp is in charge.