Tom and B'Elanna - When did the Relationship Start

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by tomalak301, Aug 29, 2008.

  1. Tracy Trek

    Tracy Trek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Alexander was 3/4 Klingon because his late mother K'Eylar was 1/2 human, 1/2 Klingon like B'Elanna.
     
  2. Nats

    Nats Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Ty, :).

    So, now we can conclude that all hybrids age faster.
     
  3. Sophie74656

    Sophie74656 Commodore Commodore

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    Not really, we can conclude that Klingon human hybrids age faster
     
  4. Nats

    Nats Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    We can also prove that katerin-human hybrids do also, since Naomi also ages faster.

    I'm not aware of any other hybrids atm.
     
  5. Sophie74656

    Sophie74656 Commodore Commodore

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    We've seen a bajoran cardassian hybrid, human vulcan hybrid and a human betazoid hybrid as prominent characters.

    As minor characters we've also seen Klingon romulan, cardassian kazon, human ocompa, human romulan, romulan vulcan,
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
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  6. Nats

    Nats Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Where those in TNG, and DS9? Because I don't remember them being in voyager.
     
  7. Sophie74656

    Sophie74656 Commodore Commodore

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    The cardassian kazon hybrid was from voyager, the rest were from the other series
     
  8. Nats

    Nats Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Oh, you mean Seska's kid. I forgot about him being a hybrid.
     
  9. JT Shark

    JT Shark Cadet Newbie

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    I thought I read somewhere that originally it was going to be Henry Kim and Torres were supposed to be the couple
     
  10. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    To be totally honest, I never felt invested in Paris/Torres romance. But I guess that it began for Tom, in "Macrosom", when he flirted with B’Elanna and then they were sick together in the mess hall then in "Alter Ego", when he flirted again with B’Elanna at the luau. As for Torres, I guess that her interest for Paris began around "Blood Fever" (the choice of a sexual partner does not take place without feeling a minimal attraction - physical or emotional - with the other individual, right?!). Then, there was "Real Life", where Paris & Torres openly flirted with each other over Women Warriors at the River of Blood, one of B’Elanna’s Klingon romance novel. In "Worst Case Scenario", they talked about a lunch date. And of course, in "Once Upon a Time", they kissed while outside a shuttle while in space.
    My problem with this couple is that I have never felt/seen any chemistry. Alright, both clearly shared some
    notable commonalities such as being astranged from parents for different reasons and considered as outcasts from their relevant societies but above that, ... . Plus, as much as Paris and Torres were interesting as individuals... even if B'elena's explosive and unmanageable character carried me quickly on the nerves, once together, they lost a lot of what made their charms. And as a married couple, they got quickly boring!

    As for Chakotay/Seven, I think the relationship was a "creative" decision taken during the writing of Endgame because 1) it was necessary to give something to do to Robert Beltran, even a futile occupation like the storu of a Chakotay's flirting with Seven, as seeing as the roles of First Officer & close confident were already occupied by Admiral Janeway! 2) and maybe the most important, the decision was essentially taken because Kate Mulgrew refused until the last minute of the show, to see her character being romantically associated to Chakotay -> IF it had been otherwise, that the lead actress had suddenly announced to producers to have changed her mind and finally been ready to give to J/C shippers what they wanted (from the beginning), I don't doubt that the writers would have found a solution to reunite them on screen, even at the very end... or at least, an unequivocal sign allowing the viewers to think/know that the field was still open for an eventual reunion in a very near future. In this case, Chakotay/Seven flirt would have been presented as a mistake from a frustrated Chakotay in need to be loved or just Seven's failing experience to move from a virtual reality with a holo-Chakotay's character to a real experience with the true Chakotay.
    -> if producers/writers "were able to offer" us a romance out of nowhere between Chakotay/Seven who barely exchanged ten lines in 3 seasons (s4 to s6) then 2 episodes in s7 (Natural Law then Human Error*) to establish the beginnings of a possible love story in the making before Endgame where they dated
    secretly for real, well I guess that they could have done the same with Janeway/Chakotay, who flirted openly and heavily during 3 seasons then, then maintaining a purely platonnic relationship while remaining closey during the 4 following years, don't you think?!

    *Plus, I think that as much "Natural Law" introduced us to the idea that Chakotay and Seven
    had finally managed to find a base to a cordial understanding and to work together, when there were only an atmosphere of mistrust, frustration and disdain between them, while "Human Error" (7x16) introduced us to the idea of Seven's will to try to experience what it would have been like to be more human like attending and participating to social events with a simulation of the upcoming baby shower for Paris/Torres & being (more) emotional, like how to react if the individual she would have hoped to become, developped a loving feeling for someone else. Besides, a great part of the story was introduced as an experience. So, it would have been easy to erase the eventuality of a romance betwen them from our minds to offer another story, more persuasive and effective. IF Branoon Braga's idea to kill off Seven character in Endgame was retained, the C/7 romantic scenes being in "Endgame - part 1", would have been irrelevant -> I don't think that to the point where they were in their romantic relationship, Seven would have sacrificed herself to save Chakotay if the latter had been in danger. By cons, I think she would have done it to save Cpt. Janeway or to save her new Collective which was the crew in general.

    In the end, only a few was satisfed with C/7's storyline and still, while a great majority remained upset and frustrated. Even the new fans continue to focus on J/C (although personally, I like a single and strong willed Janeway) and will be disappointed to find out that Chakotay will end dating Seven at the end...
     
  11. KelisThePoet

    KelisThePoet Commander Red Shirt

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    In the Star Trek: Voyager Companion book, there's an excerpt from the show's "bible" that was put together by the series' creators when they were establishing the show's premise, pre-Caretaker. And it says that B'Elanna is attracted to Tom. So it was something that the show's principal creators always intended to do--which, of course, doesn't mean that it was something they would have inevitably followed through on--they ended up changing a lot that was in that "bible." But since we know that it was on their minds as a possibility, I think it's safe to read the moment in "Faces" as intentional foreshadowing.

    That said, the idea of the Tom-B'Elanna pairing seems to have been let go or at least put on hold in Season 2. It definitely picks back up in Season 3 as early as "The Swarm," when Tom flirts with B'Elanna in the shuttle, then goes into full gear with "Blood Fever," and actually a bit before "Blood Fever," because there are moments in the two episodes previous that work as set up. First Tom and Vorik both angle to get B'Elanna to sit with them in "Alter Ego." Then Janeway refers to Tom and B'Elanna "sparring" in "Coda"--a very subtle nod, but no doubt intentional, given what immediately precedes and follows it in "Alter Ego" and "Blood Fever."

    (I've been re-watching Season 3 this month and was struck by the fact that, while the individual stories are episodic, the writers used a lot of subtle nods to roughly interconnect them--more so, I think than in later seasons.)

    Of course, the fact that Tom and B'Elanna's relationship developed early on doesn't necessarily negate the possibility that there's something between B'Elanna and Harry, too. I'd point to the conversation between Harry and B'Elanna in "Displaced" about B'Elanna's "hostility" (as Tom's just labelled it) as a moment where Tom's and B'Elanna's feelings for each other as well as Harry's feelings for B'Elanna--and maybe B'Elanna's feelings for Harry--are in play. At least that's how it reads for me. The writers could have perhaps done more with that love triangle.
     
  12. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    According to the book "Pathways" by Jeri Taylor, there was some affection between Tom an B'Elanna back in the days with the Maquis. On one occasion, Tom actually saved B'Elanna's life when she was about to drown in an accident on a planet in the Badlands.

    But that is contradictded in "Caretaker" when Tom, Kes and Neelix finds harry and B'Elanna in the Ocampa undergorund caves and neither Tom nor B'Elanna seem to recognize each other.

    But that was of coirse in a dangerous situation where the main issue was to save harry and B'Elanna and get back to the ship. I guess that neither Tom nor B'Elanna wanted to start discussing old Maquis adventures there and then.

    Not to mention that "Pathway" was written after the relationship between Tom and B'Elanna had started in the TV series and maybe Taylor wanted to add some background story to it.
     
  13. Sareesataka

    Sareesataka Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I always figured Tom and B'Elanna got divorced when they got back to Earth. The events in Endgame showed Tom and B'Elanna still married with a grown up daughter. But that was all changed in the new timeline. Tom and B'Elanna only got together because they thought they were going to be stuck on the ship for 70 years and their options for long-term relationships were pretty limited. But once they got back to Earth, they both mutually agreed there are bigger fish to fry in the dating world.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The relationship started when Tom tried to sleep with Seven.

    He asked her on a date.

    (In front of B'Elanna.)

    Sleeping with Seven might have been a week or two away, but that put B'Elanna on notice that she had to either shit or get off the pot.

    She shat.
     
  15. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I wondered the same thing in watching the opening sequence, Sareesatak. Indeed, for a couple which was so closed from the moment they had confessed their love for each other (it's simple, it was impossible to see them apart from each other outside their official positions, at the point where this physical promiscuity ended to kill what characterized them as an individual, IMHO!) they kept their distance, B'Elena talking with Asm. Janeway and Tom with Bob, the former Doctor became a full-time writer. Anyway, during this sequence, not once time they exchanged glances in the absence of being able to get closer to each other as if they became strangers (to each other).
    What was the most surprising was that 1) Tom who appeared to be a Daddy girl, right the moment where he learnt that his wife expected a baby girl, didn't rushed to the mother of his daughter, when she talked with Janeway, knowing that their little Mira was out of touch and/or refused to say what she was doing, at less to ask if she was ok and when they could see her again, as if he just didn't care.

    And still about the whole opening sequence, I'd add that I was also surprised 2) to see B'Elena interviewing Janeway almost in a tone of reproach about Miral's mission. If B'Elena hasn't never known Janeway and that she was only a worried mother questionning a Starfleet high ranked officer about her daughter's well-being, I could have understand a such attitude but a) B'Elena worked for 7 years under Janeway's command on Voyager and would have perfectly known that the former Captain would have never intentionally endangered the lives of one of her officiers and still less if the officer in question was Janeway's goddaughter, right?! b) I know that 7 years on Voyager had not necessarily made B'Elena familiar with the Starfleet protocol but trying to squeeze informations out of an Admiral, reproaching to her to have sent her daughter in a eventual dangerous secret mission, even to a person B'Elena considered for awhile as a family member, wasn't particularly smart. And besides, if I remember well, BT was put kindly in her place by Janeway => IF Miral had half the personality of her mother, she would have never accepted to be forced to do anything if she didn't want, even if in this case, she ignored Janeway's goal.
     
  16. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And BtW, even if non-canon novels written after Endgame include the birth of a son, according to the opening sequence, Miral seemed to be the only couple's child. It's strange, isn't it?! Indeed, IF they had had another one, I guess that they would have been proud - or just pleased - to bring him/her to the party... :shrug:
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That version of Miral didn't exist anymore.

    The new Miral was not raised on Voyager, by Chel and Naomi, when her parents were busy working.
     
  18. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Goodness, I started this thread in 2008. I guess to answer my own question, Maybe it was Faces where the seeds were sown. I am actually thinking about starting a rewatch of the series, so maybe this is a question I look out for.