Today's Economy & Trek's Future Economy

[Nightdiamond]

More than ever, people are talking about the economy. In short, it sucks now, people say.

Then there's the arguing between the two main political parties--about how to solve it--who has the 'real solution' to our economic problems.(which is starting to get pretty annoying)

Like, which political party is likely to get us to Trek's economic Utopia, if it's possible?

Credit ratings, spend or don't spend, tax or no tax is this stuff working?

Fans have called Trek's future economy and society communist, or socialist.

Others have said it has to be based on money, some say it isn't at all.

Some say it's even silly and unrealistic.

Right now, it looking pretty nice to me..I'm finally starting to see the appeal of TNG...

Replicators, banishing money, credits- universal health care, It's a free for all-what ideas would work, what won't -what's good about the Federation's economic system and what isn't..

 

[Sean Aaron]

Yep. I'd love to see a transition to a moneyless, meritocratic society where people work for the betterment of society and love of their jobs with extra perks like better housing and holidays abroad. I think the only way such a thing could happen is if you had an economic collapse that made going back to the "old ways" untenable, but it's nice to dream.

 

[T'Girl]

I wonder if every time Picard orders tea, or Janeway replicates coffee, they know that their grandchildren are going to be paying for it?


.

 

[MikeS]

I wonder if every time Picard orders tea, or Janeway replicates coffee, they know that their grandchildren are going to be paying for it?


.

Picard would never have children.

 

[T'Girl]

universal health care

I've heard and read other fans claim this, but I can't remember it ever explicitly being stated in any episode that this was something they had.

Wishful thinking on your part, extrapolation, or was it in fact overtly spelled out in a episode?

 

[Pavonis]

It's hard to evaluate the Federation's economic system based on observations of a couple of Starfleet vessels and a frontier starbase.

 

[MacLeod]

universal health care

I've heard and read other fans claim this, but I can't remember it ever explicitly being stated in any episode that this was something they had.

Wishful thinking on your part, extrapolation, or was it in fact overtly spelled out in a episode?

Well some countries do already have a universal Health Care System, such as the UK's NHS. That isn't to say that they don't have issues and problems which they do.

Given how big the Federation is, it's only natural that some worlds will be rich in resources that others are poor in. So World A gives world B the resource then need, who in turn give to world C, who in turn give to world A.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Yep. I'd love to see a transition to a moneyless, meritocratic society where people work for the betterment of society and love of their jobs with extra perks like better housing and holidays abroad. I think the only way such a thing could happen is if you had an economic collapse that made going back to the "old ways" untenable, but it's nice to dream.

It may sound hokey, but do you think some people fear Trek's economy simply because it's new?

I wonder if every time Picard orders tea, or Janeway replicates coffee, they know that their grandchildren are going to be paying for it?.

This is not you're father's trek anymore, lol.. wouldn't it be ironic if they showed an episode where there was an economic collapse and suddenly everything isn't free anymore??

universal health care

I've heard and read other fans claim this, but I can't remember it ever explicitly being stated in any episode that this was something they had.

Wishful thinking on your part, extrapolation, or was it in fact overtly spelled out in a episode?

Well some countries do already have a universal Health Care System, such as the UK's NHS. That isn't to say that they don't have issues and problems which they do.

Given how big the Federation is, it's only natural that some worlds will be rich in resources that others are poor in. So World A gives world B the resource then need, who in turn give to world C, who in turn give to world A.

There is one episode where they get really close to discussing it, in "Past Tense", DS9.- and either they were implying it was a disaster (in the past), or had a primitive version of universal health care.

And Trek Voyager--really gets close to talking about it in "Critical Care".

Some Uk citizens (and fans) claim universal health care works great (for them anyway).

You have to figure, with the 'there is no poverty' that comes from Trek, health care is most likely free, and less complicated.

 

[Mister_Atoz]

Not to get political, but we have Universal Healthcare up here in Canada too, it has its problems, but to many Canadians those problems seem a lot less scarier than the American Healthcare system. Basically, you may have to wait a few weeks/months for your operation, but you won't be bankrupt when you get out of surgery, and you can't be kicked off your plan for being sick.

I biased though, I don't live in the US so all we hear up here in Canada are the horror stories, no doubt Americans can say similar things about our system.

 

[Mister_Atoz]

*double post*

 

[Greg Cox]

Don't forget. The Bell Riots are only about eight years away . . . .

 

[Mister_Atoz]

I wonder if the Federation somehow "drafts" its citizens into assigned careers in exchange for all the basic necessities of life. Careers requiring more skilled labour, or are higher risk would come with better perks, more spacious residences for example.

That might explain situations like the miners on Rigel XII choosing to live on some sand blasted rock in space, rather than take a menial "street cleaning" job on earth. You serve five years on this barren rock, you retire with a "pension" and a nice home on the planet of your choosing.

Jake's "job" for the Federation news services but have been necessary in order for him to have his own quarters on the station, otherwise legally he would have to live with Sisko.

 

[Arpy]

I think they have a sophisticated educational system that includes strengths testing and job placement. Everyone learns everything, at their own pace, though still much more efficiently than we do, but they also keep track of what they're good at from early on, get to apprentice to see what jobs are really like while they're still in school, and get then get placement assistance to maintain minimal unemployment. People don't toil the decades away but get to play at what they're good at, maximizing the number of neurons, time, and effort they can work in their lives, and becoming the best producers and citizens they can be.

 

[MikeS]

From each according to his abilities. To each according to his needs.

 

[T'Girl]

Don't forget. The Bell Riots are only about eight years away . . . .

But weren't those in just one location? California. And as we're currently seeing in the UK, some people will riot just to riot.

It's hard to evaluate the Federation's economic system based on observations of a couple of Starfleet vessels and a frontier starbase.

It would be like evaluating the American economic system by looking solely at the American military. In the American military (others too) the enlisted have many things provide "for free," but they're worked incredible hard.

We've seen more of the the Federation's economic system than just Starfleet, bits and pieces. Tom Paris said the "new economy" kicked in in the 22nd century, but we know that in the 23rd the displayed economic system was recognizable. There were enough references in the 24th, showing that things weren't completely different.

do you think some people fear Trek's economy simply because it's new?

Maybe less fear and more incomprehension. They have warp drive, but that's really just a engine, they have transporter, but that just a elevator of sorts. And they have tried (technobabble) to explain these changes in technology. Star Trek has never attempted to really explain their economic system, partially (as I understand it) because the shows writers didn't understand Gene Roddenberry's "no money" instruction. Because the writers lived in a capitalist system, capitalism gradually crept into the stories, and not just with the Ferengi. The story of Ezri Dax's mother makes no sense, unless there is some form of capitalism in the Federation.

the American Healthcare system ...I biased though, I don't live in the US so all we hear up here in Canada are the horror stories

In America we have government healthcare (not universal), employer healthcare, school healthcare, private healthcare, people who want it and can't get it and people who can get it but don't want it.

Some people just pay out of their own back pockets.

Debatebly, this put Americans in a position to evaluate the various different systems, because we're surrounded by them.

So World A gives world B the resource then need, who in turn give to world C, who in turn give to world A.

Or, A sells to B, B sells to C, and C sells to A. The for mentioned dilithium miners didn't seem like they were going to give their crystals to Starfleet, Kirk openly said that he would pay for the crystals.

 

[Pavonis]

I think it's important to not conflate Earth's economic system with humanity in general, which exists on numerous planets which may not all be identical culturally or economically, or with the Federation, which has numerous alien species.

The "new economy" that Paris spoke of developed in the 22nd century, before the Federation's establishment. References to pay were more numerous in the 23rd century than the 24th. Trill may maintain a capitalistic system while Humans on Earth live in a socialistic utopia. There's no rule that says what Humans do, all the Federation must do as well.

 

[Nightdiamond]

I have to say this; if you have replicators that can produce almost anything, then do you know how silly it is to slave away at a business like mining or something, for "profit"?

Or commit crime, risking your life and freedom for profit, when there are replicators readily available?

With the Universal Healthcare issue;

The real question is, is Canada or the UK having the same type of tense debates about healthcare the way the US is?

If they're not, that is a BIG argument in their favor.

In that sense, the UK/Canada is like the Federation, and the US is like an outside world, struggling with economic health care problems.

While the "Federation" (Canada/UK) already solved the problem
and has a relatively comfortable and "advanced" healthcare system. Ironic

 

[T'Girl]

If they're not, that is a BIG argument in their favor.

Lack of choice is a favor? Or simply a system that doesn't present it citizens with the freedom of options.

A system that offer the maximum amount of choice and freedom, kind of make America the Federation, and the system with less of both the "outsider " yes?

I have to say this; if you have replicators that can produce almost anything, then do you know how silly it is to slave away at a business like mining or something, for "profit"?

But there is mining in every Star Trek series, except Enterprise. One of the first missions the Defiant took into the gamma quadrant was to look for mining sites on the planets there.

Either the replicators can not produce what a mine can. Or there is a expense to operating the replicators that makes mining a cheaper alternative.

Or commit crime, risking your life and freedom for profit, when there are replicators readily available?

If they are readily available. And there a certain line of thought that the replicators are hard wired to be incapable of producing things like non-medical drugs. Druggies commit crime.

 

[Sci]

If they're not, that is a BIG argument in their favor.

Lack of choice is a favor?

Canadians and Britons who have the money can still hire doctors privately. Canadian Medicare and the British NHS give people more choices, not less.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Lack of choice is a favor? Or simply a system that doesn't present it citizens with the freedom of options.

A system that offer the maximum amount of choice and freedom, kind of make America the Federation, and the system with less of both the "outsider " yes?

I have to admit the part of about having to insurance 'or else' is a bit creepy.

But then again, there's a lot of other stuff people have to sign up for or risk fines or penalties-- like car insurance-if you want to drive you have to get it.

If you don't, and get caught, you might get your car taken away.

The main thing is the UK and Canada aren't arguing over this issue, while Americans are having REALLY heated arguments over this.

`I don't think the Federation would be arguing amongst themselves over the issue of health care , if they have an "enlightened economy".

The Us vs Canada/UK healthcare systems kind of explains a concept you see in Trek:

The Federation has this enlightened, no-money system, (where there is abundance for all) and yet other cultures with the same technology refuse to follow the same example and prefer to deal with economic problems.