To Star Wars Fans: 'No Darth Vader For You!'

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by destructive, Jul 14, 2010.

  1. destructive

    destructive Commander Red Shirt

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    Last edited: Jul 14, 2010
  2. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    Prowse has a long history of bad-mouthing Lucas so this isn't much of a surprise, however Lucas black-balling of him from cons and such is a little extreme.

    Maybe Ed Norton can wear the Vader suit at cons.
     
  3. Davros

    Davros Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Lucas is a douche.
     
  4. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    Never, in all likelihood. For accounting reasons, very few things in Hollywood ever make a profit on paper.
     
  5. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    ^Agreed. At least not in box-office revenue. It's the merchandising that brings in the $bucks$.
     
  6. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    Oh, no, even if the box-office and home video and TV rights and other direct sources of income from the film make a profit, it still won't "make a profit" thanks to clever accounting. That way, studios don't have to pay out so many residuals or taxes.

    Which is why if you ever, ever work in film and have the option to negotiate residuals, negotiate for a percentage of revenue, not profit. As David Prowse's agent should've full-well known, residuals indexed to profit are a lovely way to get screwed.
     
  7. broberfett

    broberfett Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It is amazing that Lucas can get away with such bullshit. That movie made a shit load of money. No matter how good Prowse's case was, if he sued he would lose because Lucas is a Billionare. We have the best justice system that money can buy.
     
  8. TheBrew

    TheBrew Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Trust me, Prowse is a bigger douche and a racist.
     
  9. miraclefan

    miraclefan Commodore Commodore

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    Really?
     
  10. TheBrew

    TheBrew Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I had a chance to meet him many years ago at an out of the way comic shop. I talked to him for a good hour since I was the only one there the conversation was dominated by the fact that they only reason they didn't use his voice as Darth Vader was because they needed a black man for the cast (since it was all white). Not because he sounds like a West Country Farmer. :rolleyes:

    Okay, maybe not a big racist, but a douche nonetheless.
     
  11. Whill

    Whill Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: David Prowes will not appear at official Star Wars events

    No matter what you think about Lucas, he has always been a shrewd business man. He didn't have the money to make the original Star Wars, and secured studio (Fox) backing for it while retaining the intellectual rights to it (including merchandising) by reduicing his own pay to minimum scale pay as a director? That's nearly unheard of. And he kept going back for more and more money after the inititial budget was spent and still retained ownership of Star Wars? That's genius.

    An example for comparision is the Simspons. Did you know that it is not owned by the creator? Yeah, he gets royalties and paid as executive producer or consultant, but Fox owns the Simpsons. Trek was owned by Desilu Studios, then Paramount, then CBS. Not Gene Roddenberry, his estate or his heirs. And in general, most movie studios own the rights to the movies they finance. But Lucas has always owned Star Wars.

    David Prowse signed the contract that specified net profits (vs. gross profits). It is perfectly legitimate, just and legal. He agreed to his compensation back then. He has no legal right to complain and there is no legal basis to ask for more money.

    After RotJ grossed (not netted) over a certain amount in 1983, Lucas awarded the three principle actors, Anthony Daniels and Sir Alec Guiness (who only played a ghost at that point) additional profit points, which are a specific portions of 1% of the gross, above and beyond what he had initially contracted to pay them. He didn't have to, but he did out of generosity. He calculated a certain amount he could give away, and decided who in the cast was most important in the success of Star Wars, and divided up the bonus points among them.

    If David Prowse or any of you fans feel that he should have gotten something extra, then if anything it should be for back then, not now. The letters Prowes gets now are a reflection of his original contract. David Prowes was not as important to the success of Star Wars as the others who did get got the bonus based on gross, not net. If it is any consulation, I feel that James Earl Jones is much more important to Star Wars than David Prowes, but Jones didn't get any additional bonus gross points either.

    Now, all that being said, Prowes has still been able to make a living out of formally playing Darth Vader. He has been to zillions of (non-Lucasfilm) sc-fi conventions, getting paid for appearances and to give autographs. Whining about something he signed his name in agreement to decades ago is a bit rediculous on his part. He got banned from official Lucas-sponsored conventions because he is bad-mouthing Lucasfilm, not because Lucas didn't feel he deserved any more compensation than what he originally agreed to.

    Ironically, Prowes's bitching about not getting enough money has now eliminated any future possibilities of getting paid offically through Lucas-sponsored events. I'm an old school original-generation Star Wars fanboy, and I think Prowes is an idiot. He wanted more money from Lucas, and now he is getting less. Don't bite the hand that feeds!

    But I don't feel sorry for Prowes anyway. He will still get paid for being Darth Vader, just not from Lucasfilm. He may not legally be able to appear as Vader with the costume on, but he will still be invited to non-Lucas sci-fi conventions and such. He can still sell autographs for money.

    And regarding him believing that they didn't use his voice for Vader to fill some minority quota in Star Wars, I don't think it is fair to outright accuse Prowes of being a racist, although maybe he is. But that rational is completely rediculous. J.E. Jones has an awesome voice that was perfect for Vader, regardless of his race.
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I thought Hayden looked too short in the armour, and the family Guy Skit about how Jim was to fat to fit in the armour was a hoot.

    This is all just silly and petty from either direction.
     
  13. Brolan

    Brolan Commodore Commodore

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    While I agree with many of the points above I can't get away from one thing. Saying one of the most successful movies of all time has not made a profit is complete HORSESHIT. It's not "clever accounting", it's deceptive, greedy, and just plain wrong. Lucasfilms should do an honest accounting and pay up what it owes. For Lucas not to do this is dishonest, and he should be quite embarrassed.
     
  14. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Sounds like a bitter moron. James Earl Jones was one of only a few well-known actors in that movie, and Lucas probably felt lucky to get an actor of his caliber. And his voice acting completely made Darth Vader. That, and the costume is what did it. They could have gotten any tall guy to wear the damn suit. :rolleyes:

    James Earl Jones' casting as Vader is one of the all time great calls, right up there with Leonard Nimoy as Spock. In fact, it's probably even more genius. I can see Martin Landau being able to pull off the role of Spock, but nobody else could have done what Jones did.
     
  15. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Possibly - the movies do make profits and pretty hefty ones at that.

    Go to google and try the term "hollywood accounting" or you can go to slashdot and find the recent link.

    Basically Hollywood engages in a lot of creative accounting practices a movie that grosses nearly $US1billion is still shown as barely making a profit as the studio charges fees to it's self that don't really do anything beyond artificially decreasing the profit.
     
  16. EnsignRicky

    EnsignRicky Commodore Commodore

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    Awww, too bad. Looks like he'll only be able to hawk his David Prowse IS Darth Vader autograph at three hundred and sixty four appearances this year.
     
  17. Meredith

    Meredith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Lawyers + Accountants + Hollywood = Total Suckage
     
  18. Kibbin

    Kibbin Commodore Commodore

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    Didn't they have to wait during the filming of Empire for Chewie to come back to work after they found nobody else could actually pull it off?

    I do agree that Jones added more to Vader than he did though, O'ar Luke I be you'r Father, doesn't have quite the same ring, just as the guy who played chewie doing his own roars wouldn't have worked.
    At the end of the day it's all legal and above board so imo he should quite his bitching, has the guy actually been in anything else since then, if not maybe he shouldn't be burning bridges and be gratefull for what he's got.
     
  19. The Badger

    The Badger Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: David Prowes will not appear at official Star Wars events


    Agreed. I an interview I read with Prowse, it was Lucas who said "we have to use a black actor dub Vader's voice", presumably as an attempt to justify why they weren't going with Prowse's west country tones. Maybe Prowse was naive to believe they would have used his voice. And maybe he's grown extremely bitter about what he sees as unfair treatment. But that doesn't make him 'a racist and a douche'.
     
  20. Char Aznable

    Char Aznable Lieutenant Commander

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    He also lied when he was offered the part, saying he knew how to fence. Since then, they hired someone to perform the sword fights in ESB and ROTJ. He was also butthurt about not being allowed to play Anakin during the unmasking scene.