To Accept or Not to Accept

[3D Master]

Your welcome to your take on it and ive said that sine i began this thread... All im saying is ... TOS, the films, the next generation.. DS9, voyager, and even enterprise...

TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, yes.

Enterprise - fuck no. It doesn't even come close.

One of the most horrifying facts that this movie does; acknowledge that clusterfuck that is Enterprise. That alone makes it unwatchable as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Gepard]

One of the most horrifying facts that this movie does; acknowledge that clusterfuck that is Enterprise. That alone makes it unwatchable as far as I'm concerned.

This board acknowledges the clusterfuck that is Enterprise too. It even has its own forum. Shouldn't the TrekBBS become unvisitable for you?

 

[Amaris]

If you don't care to play, then don't. But if you choose to participate, I'd expect you to either take it seriously -- I mean, you are taking the time to write complete sentences, which puts you ahead of most folks here -- or at least enjoy the kibbutzing for the sake of tweaking people (which seems to be what a good quarter of the folks here seem to waste time doing.)

I find revisionism infuriating. That in my mind is a very legitimate concern. The 'print the legend' of LIBERTY VALLANCE is particularly disturbing to me when I see it play out in papers, on the net, and seemingly everywhere else. Trek seems to have gotten more spin on its history in the last 15 years than it had all the way up till that point, and now with a lot of primary sources dead, that revisionism is taking hold. If that doesn't matter to your enjoyment, then say so and leave it at that.

But don't try to pass off facts as unimportant as a given or an absolute in storytelling, because that trivializes the work of those who did bring these shows to you -- good and bad -- and made it enough of a phenomena that there is a website here about it.

I love Star Trek canon. I used to absorb the technical manuals, the chronology, pick over every detail of every episode (I'm a huge Nitpicker fan). I'm not disregarding what so many talented writers, directors, producers, actors and a countless number of supporting staff have done.

It is why I appreciate the new movie. I believe it pays homage to those who worked so hard to flesh out this universe that we have all come to love so much. I see reverence, respect, appreciation and gratitude to those who came before, in this new film. I have listened to J.J. speak at these conventions and PR conferences, and I am certain in my gut and more importantly, in my heart, that he respects the body of work we have seen. He just wants to add his own take to it. That's what he is doing with this movie.

I respect your right to disagree, and we will probably disagree often on the movie, but that doesn't mean I throw all facts out the window. What I'm saying is that you don't let facts and figures keep you from telling a good story. If you have to retcon, so be it, but the writers of the original series never let facts and minutiae get in the way of great storytelling. Facts and history enhance a story, but they rarely make it great. It's the power in the writing, the directing, the acting, these things create magic, in a sense. We are drawn into these fantastic worlds. Honestly, as much as I love Star Trek, from what I've seen of J.J.'s movie, it seems the most realistic in terms of our future, while still maintaining that Star Trek look and feel. It's there, I tell you.

I do hope you decide to see this movie. Even if you dislike it, you'll stand on solid ground in doing so. Even if you walk out halfway through, at least you tried.

This Star Trek movie is about optimism and the spirit to overcome the odds no matter how great, and it doesn't matter your race, religion, creed, or background. Sounds like the spirit of Jim Kirk to me.

J.

 

[Palphramond]

But for me (my opinion) Destroying or disregarding Decades of other peoples writing is shamefull. And its being done with that great idea that fouled up enterprise... "to make it appeal to a wider audience"
I hope they enjoy it, We have certianly paid a heavey price for their amusment.

Nobody destroys or disregards anything.
Mate, just stop and read what you are writing... 'shameful', 'fouled up', 'We have certainly paid a heavy price for their amusement' (sorry for correcting your typos, that's the university lecturer coming through).
Get off your bloody high horse, get real, get a life! And, by the way, stop talking for the rest of us...

I find it disgraceful, disrespectful, and shameful, and i am not alone... When is began this thread, the first 15 or so posts were clearly in favor of Star Trek 90210 (another trekkie coined the phraise, which i find fitting).

But as it continued i began to notice several individuals sharing my opinion. This film is like an episode where the timeline is badly altered, and there is no fix at the end...

And what is the excuse... "we want it to appeal to a wider audience"

Well in all honesty i would say this to trek revisionists.... write your own canon if you wish... but dont go fouling up the trek timeline... and if you do have the decency to fix it when your done....

Does anyone have the telephone number for Temporal Investigations?

I highly doubt that you know how the movie ends ... so don't you think it is a little premature to say that "there is no fix at the end"? None of us have seen the movie yet (if any of you have, I will pay many American dollars to find out how :-p) so I think that making such absolute statements can only hurt your chances of enjoying the film. Before anyone can truly say that this movie is ruining the timeline, they must have seen the film. Remember when Spock DIED? Well, he came back, but it took another movie to do it. Just hope that they don't pull something similar and have us wait until 2012 for the completion of the story!

(I realize that this works both ways, and that I cannot say that I know the film DOESN'T mess with the timeline until I have seen it. However, I have faith in the toughness of Trek writers and fans to sleep at night, if it does indeed happen)

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Therefore as of the release of this Film, all of star trek history TOS to Nemesis is gone... Period.

Just look at it this way: a new timeline has been created but so incredibly close to the original that there are no differences other than what we actually know from the movie has definitely changed (if there are any definite changes, I'm avoiding spoilers).

Edith Keeler still died. Julian Bashir still created the k-white cure and Miles destroyed it. Seven went on a date with EMH and played hologames with Hirogen hunters dressed as Nazis. Data had a cat named Spot that had kittens and turned into an iguana, temporarily. Janeway and Paris also turned into iguanas, temporarily (although their offspring did not appear to be feline). Malcolm Reed liked pineapple and liked to blow shit up. Jonathan Archer liked water polo and got his ass kicked constantly. Kira was bitchy in our universe and a dominatrix in the Mirror Universe. Scotty made alcoholism look fun. People ate colored jello cubes in the 23rd C and jambalaya with tube grubs in the 24th. The Enterprise battled everything from space ameobas to Borg cubes and lived to tell the tale until it got destroyed but they just made another one anyway. Everything we like still exists.

However, Trip did NOT die in that stupid episode! That's the one and only change, and I'm happy.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Star Trek has one history...

You clearly haven't paid much attention then. As a TV show/movie series it has a history, the history of an Entertainment franchise that went from a failed TV show to juggernaunt that spawned several movies and TV spin offs. The "history" actually presented in those shows and movies is wildly inconsistant and contradictory. I doubt a professional historian looking at the facts presented would even call it history. Mythology maybe, since the rules in Myths aren't all that strict. This movie is just a new take on the myths.

 

[StarTrek1701]

As a loyal trekkie from birth(my father was a life long fan) i view this situation from a logical point of view. First a proven point.

• Star Trek Universe/canon, allows for only one timeline. This has been proven time and time again. To quote Worf from the DS9 EP "Children of time" if you change the past, the time line you exist in is altered. If like in that episode you stop a key event, "your timeline will collapse". Therefore if there is no reset at the end (i doubt there will be in any case) then 40+ Years of trek collapses and is deemed a dead timeline, such as the one in the above DS0 episode. Another example would be STVOY "Year of hell".

Therefore as of the release of this Film, all of star trek history TOS to Nemesis is gone... Period.

Therefore as fans we have a choice, to accept it or not.

From the cancellation of Enterprise, i longed for more trek, and rejoiced at the first Star Trek XI Poster!!! As a lifelong fan i welcomed the film when announced as it was made clear the producers and director would "remain true" to Star Trek itself.

This it would seem is not the case...

I watched Enterprise with growing dissatisfaction but as a loyal follower, devoted, and with seemingly blind faith. If i were to accept this film and view it, i would be betraying the true star trek time line.

Therefore reluctantly i will not view it. For me, Star Trek died with enterprise, and its time line ended with Nemesis... Not a brilliant ending it has to be said. But none the less an ending. I have spent thousands of Euros on star trek memorabilia over the years, and own a full collection of DVD'S, and VHS. I feel, that as a loyal Trekkie i have the right to make this choice. I impose my belief on no one. I merely make it known, and would appreciate your opinion, and how you will deal with it!

Long Live Star Trek,

or

as you may now say

Star Trek is dead! Long Live Star Trek!

Jesus...

 

[Guartho]

But as it continued i began to notice several individuals sharing my opinion.

Without doing a detailed analysis of 8 pages I'm pretty sure it's two. You noticed two. One of them has just posted in no uncertain terms that he completely disagrees with part of your opinion so it's more like 1 & 4/5ths people sharing your opinion.

 

[tauntme]

Wow...just wow. Some people are just...wow.

 

[Rii]

But as it continued i began to notice several individuals sharing my opinion.

Without doing a detailed analysis of 8 pages I'm pretty sure it's two. You noticed two. One of them has just posted in no uncertain terms that he completely disagrees with part of your opinion so it's more like 1 & 4/5ths people sharing your opinion.

I'm sure one could find others sharing the OP's concerns outside this forum. Those disinterested in or actively hostile towards this new film have little reason to post here.

 

[pookha]

Mirror Universe is part of star trek canon in linked countless times to the regular universe... In the concept of trek there is one canon.....

once again no there is not.
i already listed instances were with time travel the various crews could have already altered the past starting with tos and city on the edge of forever.

but then there are the myriad contradictions within canon itself..
is the tos verse a place where they dont run into being of energy and no bodies in return to tomorrow.??
of course that causes all kinds of fits with errand of mercy, the organians , the peace treaty and most appearances of the klingons.

are there true telepaths or not in tos verse.
depends on whether you go with where no man or with is there no truth in beauty.

throw in all the movies, the other series and canon has been convulted for awhile.

 

[M'Sharak]

But as it continued i began to notice several individuals sharing my opinion.

Without doing a detailed analysis of 8 pages I'm pretty sure it's two. You noticed two. One of them has just posted in no uncertain terms that he completely disagrees with part of your opinion so it's more like 1 & 4/5ths people sharing your opinion.

I'm sure one could find others sharing the OP's concerns outside this forum. Those disinterested in or actively hostile towards this new film have little reason to post here.

But they've been posting here just the same, ever since the forum was created, perhaps to remind everyone they exist, as much as for any other reason. I find, however, that very few, here or outside the forum, fit either the rabidly-for or violently-against categories; the vast majority are scattered across a wide continuum somewhere in between the two, and are mainly looking for a good Star Trek movie out of the deal.

Concerns? Oh, they've got lots, but most of them will watch to movie to see whether or not those concerns were justified.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Star Trek has one history...

You clearly haven't paid much attention then. As a TV show/movie series it has a history...

Yes. But there is no "history of the future" or "history of the Star Trek Universe" that has to be - or at this point, really ought to be - adhered to as gospel. Clearly Abrams and his people aren't going to do this, which is one reason that this movie has a decent shot at being both good and successful.

Gnashing our teeth over so-called "revisionism" in this kind of scattershot fiction is preposterous and a waste of life. If everyone did that, the James Bond movies right now would suck as badly as they did a decade ago.

 

[Rii]

Without doing a detailed analysis of 8 pages I'm pretty sure it's two. You noticed two. One of them has just posted in no uncertain terms that he completely disagrees with part of your opinion so it's more like 1 & 4/5ths people sharing your opinion.

I'm sure one could find others sharing the OP's concerns outside this forum. Those disinterested in or actively hostile towards this new film have little reason to post here.

But they've been posting here just the same, ever since the forum was created, perhaps to remind everyone they exist, as much as for any other reason.

Some, sure, but not everyone. I've certainly seem some names in GTD threads on Trek XI that I've never seen here. Some are interested in the film but want to go in blind, others are disinterested and don't post here for that reason. I don't think the rabid naysayers amongst the existing Trek fanbase constitute anything like a majority, but there are certainly more than two or three people concerned with Trek canon and this film's place within it.

I find, however, that very few, here or outside the forum, fit either the rabidly-for or violently-against categories; the vast majority are scattered across a wide continuum somewhere in between the two, and are mainly looking for a good Star Trek movie out of the deal.

Agreed.

 

[Sector 7]

This is amazing... I've been gone for over two months and nothing has changed. Cries of "J.J. raped my childhood!" vs. those who are trying to be positive about a movie NONE of us have yet seen.

FACT: The latest Star Trek movie trailer on Apple Trailers has hit over 8.5 million views/downloads. This makes it the MOST WATCHED trailer to date.

FACT: The movie is finished. No one is going to re-write the script to suit anyone on TrekBBS.

FACT: This film is part of Star Trek because Paramount made it. No fan owns the franchise, they may support it with their dollars, but they do not keep those profits (unless they own Paramount preferred stock).

OPINION: I am eagerly awaiting this movie with a desire to see it (and the franchise owned by Paramount) succeed.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

This is amazing... I've been gone for over two months and nothing has changed. Cries of "J.J. raped my childhood!" vs. those who are trying to be positive about a movie NONE of us have yet seen.

FACT: The latest Star Trek movie trailer on Apple Trailers has hit over 8.5 million views/downloads. This makes it the MOST WATCHED trailer to date.

FACT: The movie is finished. No one is going to re-write the script to suit anyone on TrekBBS.

FACT: This film is part of Star Trek because Paramount made it. No fan owns the franchise, they may support it with their dollars, but they do not keep those profits (unless they own Paramount preferred stock).

Absolutely Right(TM).

 

[Rii]

FACT: The latest Star Trek movie trailer on Apple Trailers has hit over 8.5 million views/downloads. This makes it the MOST WATCHED trailer to date.

Where are you getting that figure from?

 

[Dr. M'benga]

I love Star Trek canon. I used to absorb the technical manuals, the chronology, pick over every detail of every episode (I'm a huge Nitpicker fan). I'm not disregarding what so many talented writers, directors, producers, actors and a countless number of supporting staff have done.

It is why I appreciate the new movie. I believe it pays homage to those who worked so hard to flesh out this universe that we have all come to love so much. I see reverence, respect, appreciation and gratitude to those who came before, in this new film. I have listened to J.J. speak at these conventions and PR conferences, and I am certain in my gut and more importantly, in my heart, that he respects the body of work we have seen. He just wants to add his own take to it. That's what he is doing with this movie.

Right there with you on all points. I adore canon. It's fun and feels like 'home'. But I'm also fairly hopeful that we'll find JJ and Co. have gone out of their way to fit ST09 into both ST and sci-fi convention.

And even speculative science. If you get into multiverse theory, not only are parallel universes possible, they may in fact be mandatory. And created by every choice and random outcome that ever occurred. Some believe every possible scenario must exist in another timeline.

So, somewhere in some universe, Chris Farley must be still alive, in the White House and married to Cindy Crawford. And in the ST world, it's mandatory that there's an alternate timeline where the nacelles have blue caps and Kirk has blue eyes.

That's not an argument. It's just fun to think about.

 

[Amaris]

I love Star Trek canon. I used to absorb the technical manuals, the chronology, pick over every detail of every episode (I'm a huge Nitpicker fan). I'm not disregarding what so many talented writers, directors, producers, actors and a countless number of supporting staff have done.

It is why I appreciate the new movie. I believe it pays homage to those who worked so hard to flesh out this universe that we have all come to love so much. I see reverence, respect, appreciation and gratitude to those who came before, in this new film. I have listened to J.J. speak at these conventions and PR conferences, and I am certain in my gut and more importantly, in my heart, that he respects the body of work we have seen. He just wants to add his own take to it. That's what he is doing with this movie.

Right there with you on all points. I adore canon. It's fun and feels like 'home'. But I'm also fairly hopeful that we'll find JJ and Co. have gone out of their way to fit ST09 into both ST and sci-fi convention.

And even speculative science. If you get into multiverse theory, not only are parallel universes possible, they may in fact be mandatory. And created by every choice and random outcome that ever occurred. Some believe every possible scenario must exist in another timeline.

So, somewhere in some universe, Chris Farley must be still alive, in the White House and married to Cindy Crawford. And in the ST world, it's mandatory that there's an alternate timeline where the nacelles have blue caps and Kirk has blue eyes.

That's not an argument. It's just fun to think about.

It adds a little spice to the mix. I would love it if kids watched this movie and got into Star Trek because of it. Trek needs new life, and uh, new civilizations. It needs to boldly go where plenty of people have gone before, but make it interesting!

J.

 

[Orac Zen]

I think we can close this forum now.

Nah. M'Sharak would be bored and have nothing to do.