TNG's "Too Short a Season" with Kirk...

[Praetor]

I'm putting this here to get a wide range of perspectives from TNG and non-TNG fans.

I've long read the rumors that "Too Short a Season" was conceived to feature an aged Admiral Kirk returning to the planet from the TOS "A Private Little War" episode. (I'm not sure whether there's any truth to this, perhaps someone else knows.)

Two questions.

1. What would a version of this episode with Kirk have been like, and how would you have it differ from the aired episode?
2. Would it have worked for you, that is, could it be a proper revisit/sendoff for an aged Kirk?

 

[BillJ]

I'm not sure the episode would've played out too much differently and it would've worked better as a send-off than Generations did.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'm putting this here to get a wide range of perspectives from TNG and non-TNG fans.

I've long read the rumors that "Too Short a Season" was conceived to feature an aged Admiral Kirk returning to the planet from the TOS "A Private Little War" episode. (I'm not sure whether there's any truth to this, perhaps someone else knows.)

Two questions.

1. What would a version of this episode with Kirk have been like, and how would you have it differ from the aired episode?
2. Would it have worked for you, that is, could it be a proper revisit/sendoff for an aged Kirk?

Seems like it would have intentionally discredited Kirk and The Original Series. The Trek fanbase would have been absolutely furious. You don't start a sequel by shitting on the original.

 

[T'Girl]

You don't start a sequel by shitting on the original.

This.

The ending would have had to of been changed, with Kirk being the one to find a solution to the orginal problrm. And Picard and crew all commenting that they have learn something important at the knee of the master.

 

[Shawnster]

I'm not sure the episode would've played out too much differently and it would've worked better as a send-off than Generations did.

I agree. But the episode would have to be expanded. A two-parter would be a more fitting send-off than just one episode. It's Kirk, after all.

 

[Tomalak]

Seems unlikely, given the production team broke out in hives at the mere mention of the original series. It took lengthy discussion before a passing reference to Spock was allowed into the script for 'Sarek'.

 

[BillJ]

Seems unlikely, given the production team broke out in hives at the mere mention of the original series. It took lengthy discussion before a passing reference to Spock was allowed into the script for 'Sarek'.

I'm pretty sure the idea was pitched as a sequel to A Private Little War. Also, not sure I get the "hives" comment. They may have acted that way but they still mined TOS for elements pretty regularly and many of the season one episodes were remixes of TOS episodes.

 

[Timo]

You don't start a sequel by shitting on the original.

Not sure about that one. DS9 got its hero to a great start by basically telling the audience that the only apology he would accept from the original show's leading character would be a slow and painful suicide...

Had Kirk been the one to take the rejuvenating poison, I'd expect him to die at the end of the episode. There'd be no future for the character in a rejuvenated form, and no dramatic value in his return to his aged form. But the confrontation between Kirk and whoever got to represent the folks at Tyree's planet would no doubt have involved Kirk getting the final word and making his opponent repent, to the point of him delivering a touching eulogy. Picard would be the one left speechless in the final confrontation.

It's difficult to see how Kirk could have become more of a good guy in the story, though. And the very point of doing it would be the shock value of him not being one.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Praetor]

Not sure about that one. DS9 got its hero to a great start by basically telling the audience that the only apology he would accept from the original show's leading character would be a slow and painful suicide...

Good point.

Had Kirk been the one to take the rejuvenating poison, I'd expect him to die at the end of the episode. There'd be no future for the character in a rejuvenated form, and no dramatic value in his return to his aged form. But the confrontation between Kirk and whoever got to represent the folks at Tyree's planet would no doubt have involved Kirk getting the final word and making his opponent repent, to the point of him delivering a touching eulogy. Picard would be the one left speechless in the final confrontation.

It's difficult to see how Kirk could have become more of a good guy in the story, though. And the very point of doing it would be the shock value of him not being one.

Agree for the most part. There did seem to be a consistent knee-jerk "No" to including more than a passing reference to anything TOS on the part of Roddenberry and company. That said, the production team seemed to enjoy sneaking in what they could, such as the Constitution model that liked to float around, or various schematics on display montages. So to include Kirk, surely they would have had to have a good reason, such as using the shock value.

I tend to agree that it would not have been a great send-off to the TOS gang. I suspect that you could have substituted Kirk for Jameson (James son eh?) and it would have flowed more or less as is, however, Kirk would have been older and maybe the serum would not have aged him down so much - maybe just to Shatner's actual age in '87. That wouldn't have been a horrible ending.

I wonder if the original pitch was serious in revisiting "APLW" or if it was merely a "Suppose we went back to a planet like that one..." sort of pitch?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

You don't start a sequel by shitting on the original.

Not sure about that one. DS9 got its hero to a great start by basically telling the audience that the only apology he would accept from the original show's leading character would be a slow and painful suicide...

Yeah, and then Sisko got over it and was somewhat on friendly terms with Picard when he left again at the end.

 

[Praetor]

Perhaps Picard and Kirk would have found accord by the end of the episode, too.

 

[Timo]

Having Kirk die to reconcile his sins would also bring peace to the relationship between the leaders - and help preserve Kirk's character, as Picard excels in making things sound good after the fact...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Praetor]

Heh, touchee. Or let Data do it. "To know him, is to love him, is to know him."

 

[Dream]

You don't start a sequel by shitting on the original.

Not sure about that one. DS9 got its hero to a great start by basically telling the audience that the only apology he would accept from the original show's leading character would be a slow and painful suicide...

No, it wasn't a great start. Plenty of fans were on Picard's side the time and even now are still pissed at how Sisko treated him.

 

[Timo]

Which was a good thing, because the new hero had an edge - why, he was a bad guy!

"This is not your dad's Star Trek" is a great way to launch a sequel. What's the point of even having one if it's just more of the same-o?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Commishsleer]

Seems unlikely, given the production team broke out in hives at the mere mention of the original series. It took lengthy discussion before a passing reference to Spock was allowed into the script for 'Sarek'.

I'm pretty sure the idea was pitched as a sequel to A Private Little War. Also, not sure I get the "hives" comment. They may have acted that way but they still mined TOS for elements pretty regularly and many of the season one episodes were remixes of TOS episodes.

I heard they were supposed to act if it didn't exist. Sure they could copy it but they were never to mention the characters. It was only later in the series when TNG was a success and certain people had left that they could relax and acknowledge it reluctantly.

 

[BillJ]

I heard they were supposed to act if it didn't exist.

They sure didn't do a very good job of it.

 

[CoveTom]

I heard they were supposed to act if it didn't exist. Sure they could copy it but they were never to mention the characters. It was only later in the series when TNG was a success and certain people had left that they could relax and acknowledge it reluctantly.

The prohibition on connections to TOS did not begin in the first season of TNG. The first season contains numerous references.

For example, McCoy himself appears in the pilot episode. And in The Naked Now, they specifically reference the original TOS Enterprise and Captain Kirk by name.

I believe it was Rick Berman who had the issue with referencing TOS once he became head honcho around seasons two and three. Ron Moore says it was Berman he struggled with to get to mention Spock in Sarek. But then Berman loosened up on that later on, allowing references in during later seasons, not to mention appearances by Spock and Scotty.

 

[Melakon]

Even if they had conceived the story as a possible offer for Shatner, he might not have been ready for Kirk to die at that time, especially in a television episode. So if it had been Kirk, he might have survived.

 

[Shawnster]

Even if they had conceived the story as a possible offer for Shatner, he might not have been ready for Kirk to die at that time, especially in a television episode. So if it had been Kirk, he might have survived.

Yah, the ego would have gotten in the way.