TNG vs DS9 - The Showdown!

[TheGodBen]

Odo sides with the solids solely because he loves Kira (which not for a second was written believably)...

Maybe you're lucky enough not to go through what he went through in Crossfire, but that episode was very true to life. The quality of the writing for the Odo/Kira relationship was very bumpy but there are several instances where the writers got it spot on.

 

[timelord1010]

Sisko came off as being a complete asshole. How can he have the nerve to verbally abuse Picard and blame him for the attack at Wolf 359? (I *hated* the fact that Picard said nothing to that). Like it's Picard's fault that he got kidnapped and assimilated into the collective. I don't know how much it was about the way Avery Brooks portrayed the character, but Sisko just wasn't a likeable person to me, and he never changed.

And of course, Kira. Hmm. Ok, I understand that she's pissed at the Cardassians, and I understand that she's pissed at the Federation for butting their heads into their matters. Was it necessary for her to be a complete bitch all the time? And her transformation from hating Cardassians to working with them never seemed realistic to me. One day she wants to kill Dukat, the next day she's working side by side with him. Right.

I'll tackle two of your statements. Picard as Locutus killed Sisko's wife and many of his friends and crewmates so that would explain his anger toward Picard. Later in the episode the wormhole aliens confront Sisko about his always returning to the place of his wife's death in his mind and he finally starts to let go of the pain and anger he has been carrying around.

As for Kira, if you would watch more episodes she is not always "bitchy", she opens up and becomes good friends with most of the cast and jokes around with other characters and even dates several characters. She's been thru alot, her mother was taken from her and became a mistress to Gul Dukat when she was young and fought in the Bajoran resistance while the Cardassians strip mined her planet (Deep Space Nine was originally a ore processing plant). It took several seasons before she was willing to work with Dukat and he betrayed her when he switched sides and went with the Dominion.

I love DS9, it has well developed characters and worlds. I think what hurts TNG is it's episodic nature. Each week the Enterprise-D is encountering a different world or people and there isn't alot of time to develop the main characters like on DS9 where the characters are almost always on the station and the action come to them.

I like every version of Trek with the exception of the new movie which I thought was just OK ( didn't like Kirk losing his experience working his way up on other ships before he became Captain) and I think each series has it's good and bad points but I believe DS9 has the most positives and least negatives of the Berman era series.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

"Rorschach's Journal. July 5, 2009.

Ran into minor annoyance today. Self-described non-Deep Space Nine hater who clearly despises Deep Space Nine. Couldn't stop talking about how said show is the worst thing ever. Name of Anwar. Madly in love with the sound of own voice. Or sight of words rather. Incapable of tolerating other opinions. Enraged over minority status. Inability to let things go and not have the final word. Veidt and him would become fast friends. Displayed an almost trollish ability to hijack threads. Rabid Voyager fan. Possible Communist connection. Must investigate further."

OK, I realize I missed this when it first appeared, but this isn't acceptable. Warning for Trolling, send comments via PM.

To everyone else. Knock this off right now.

 

[Tachyon]

DS9 winning this little poll confirms my suspicions - this board has a solid and active DS9 fanbase.

And there is nothing wrong with that. However, DS9 ruling in this manner may not necessarily happen elsewhere.

 

[GalaxyX]

DS9 winning this little poll confirms my suspicions - this board has a solid and active DS9 fanbase.

And there is nothing wrong with that. However, DS9 ruling in this manner may not necessarily happen elsewhere.

DS9 and TNG are totally different shows. Apples and Oranges really (or is that Apples and PC's? )

DS9 certainly wasn't "my" type of show, and no matter how well written it was (there were some really great episodes, like "Hard Time") as a whole I just can't get into it, for the reasons I stated in my previous post.

 

[Cyke101]

Sisko came off as being a complete asshole. How can he have the nerve to verbally abuse Picard and blame him for the attack at Wolf 359? (I *hated* the fact that Picard said nothing to that). Like it's Picard's fault that he got kidnapped and assimilated into the collective. I don't know how much it was about the way Avery Brooks portrayed the character, but Sisko just wasn't a likeable person to me, and he never changed.

I'll tackle two of your statements. Picard as Locutus killed Sisko's wife and many of his friends and crewmates so that would explain his anger toward Picard. Later in the episode the wormhole aliens confront Sisko about his always returning to the place of his wife's death in his mind and he finally starts to let go of the pain and anger he has been carrying around.

This is absolutely crucial to Sisko's 7 year arc, as the events of the first episode pretty much get him started to the path of enlightenment and acceptance. Acceptance of religion had to begin with acceptance of his pain.

I love one of the final scenes of Emissary, when Sisko and Picard see each other one last time in that episode: Sisko approaches Picard, and Picard fully remembers how Sisko verbally attacked him. Trusty, ever-dependable Picard is more than ready to defend himself this time and is itching for a verbal fight to defend his honor and that of Starfleet. But he's immediately disarmed by Sisko's fast smile and quick admission that Picard was right all along. Perhaps more right than Picard could know because of Sisko's involvement with the Prophets and how the message of Bajoran spirituality seemed to parallel Sisko's Starfleet career. THAT is depth.

 

[Anwar]

That, and the novelization of Emissary stated that Sisko felt awful about his he treated Picard earlier and he now knew Picard was just as much a victim as he had been. It was good depth of character and humanity. After all the pilot episode of DS9 was pretty much about a man who "fell down" and then managed to pick himself up again, which is one of Trek's messages.

 

[Cyke101]

That, and the novelization of Emissary stated that Sisko felt awful about his he treated Picard earlier and he now knew Picard was just as much a victim as he had been. It was good depth of character and humanity. After all the pilot episode of DS9 was pretty much about a man who "fell down" and then managed to pick himself up again, which is one of Trek's messages.

Upon 2nd or 3rd viewing, I started to wonder what it would be like had Picard encountered the Prophets first rather than Sisko. Picard would have probably taken it in stride and steer the story in a completely different way, cosmically exploratory way, but we've seen that already in TNG (Inner Light or a Q episode, for example). To have someone like Sisko go through it instead may tell a better or worse story, but I get the feeling that wasn't the intent; rather, that it was to tell a different, personal story of self-forgiveness.

 

[Cakes488]

Excuse me...but why no neither option??????????

 

[Cyke101]

Excuse me...but why no neither option??????????

Because life is hard and one must make the difficult choices to live life.

Of course, I don't believe in the no-win scenario, either!

 

[sreceiver]

The difference between TNG and DS9 is the difference between lightening and a lightening bug.

I can't watch shows where the characters have personality problems like the commander of DS9. If i wanted to see something with 'realistic' characters with their attendant ego trips i would just watch a plain vanilla soap opera, at least there's no pretensions of being science fiction.

Science fiction should extrapolate science fact. Preferably the characters should be superhumanly intelligent solving superhumanly difficult problems. Who cares about a rogue terrorist when the whole sea of science and exploration lies ahead of you?

I'll be the first to admit TNG had a majority of bad episodes, but it's the few gems that stand out and that's all that matters in the end.

Take for example All Good Things. Q creates a time anomaly that doesnt follow the arrow of entropy. Picard's attempt to prevent a disaster brings about the very one he is trying to obviate, but in a strange way. His present actions change the PAST, and hence humanity's future. That's masterful sci-fi writing if you ask me.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

The only reason I watch TNG is because it is Trek. Sometimes I can hardly stand it because of the boring preachiness. It's only saved for me by showing us a TON of history the subsequent series were built on and by Patrick Stewart's always excellent delivery, a great actor that man with great presence.

DS9 is a long and wonderful degustation of delights. Politics and religion. Great, great stuff.

 

[Paradon]

I like DS9 because I can relate to it better and the characters were better developed IMO in a way that it's like you know each character personally, and the aliens look awesome. I think having great actors help it out a lot.

 

[MacLeod]

Overall DSN was the superior show, don't get me wrong TNG was good but DSN pushed it to the next level.

 

[GNDN]

DS9 is a long and wonderful degustation...

I just learned a word!

Thanks zombie thread (and teacake)

 

[Winterwind]

I've only just started watching DS9. I caught a handful of episodes when it originally aired but didn't go out of may way to watch any show, Trek or otherwise.

Having just finished S4, DS9 ranks #2 for me, after TOS.

TNG is at the bottom. Well, TAS is at the bottom if I count that.

 

[Mach5]

inb4 "holy thread resurrection, Batman"

 

[{ Emilia }]

I prefer liberal TNG over neocon DS9.

Also TNG just makes me happy cause I love the characters.

 

[DevilEyes]

I prefer liberal TNG over neocon DS9.

There's a neocon remake of DS9? When was it made?

 

[{ Emilia }]

I prefer liberal TNG over neocon DS9.

There's a neocon remake of DS9? When was it made?

I just like to whine because there's a hand full of DS9 episodes that really, really pissed me off.

Other than that I liked it. Never liked any of the main cast, though but at least they had awesome guest stars.