TNG: Silent Weapons by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

[MatthiasRussell]

Future hasn't been written but it is playable! In STO, the current time is 2409. And as of 2409, Captain Data retired following the destruction of the Enterprise-E and becomes professor in Cambridge.

But: STO is a parallel universe to TrekLit. There's destiny that forces the same people in distinct timelines to follow the same life.

We don't want the STO universe tied into the treklit continuity or canon continuity. STO is fun to play but it's stories are not compelling and do not present a future nearly as interesting as that created by the novel writers. And already, the 2 continuities have diverged too much to be brought together again.

However, I am for keeping Countdown with the novel continuity as it worked well as a ST09 prequel and was well written. The problem with the ST09 comic tie-ins, however, is according to them Vger was part of the Borg which just doesn't make sense.

 

[Ronald Held]

More than half way through. These moles are based on Lore's hardware without Soong's synaptic brain transfer technique?

 

[Markonian]

We don't want the STO universe tied into the TrekLit continuity or canon continuity. STO is fun to play but it's stories are not compelling and do not present a future nearly as interesting as that created by the novel writers.

Sorry, I had a typo in my sentence. It was meant to be: There's NO destiny forcing characters to follow the same path.

Despite the discontinuities, some events can still turn out to be the same. In canon we saw the same uniform in three aborted futures. Natural catastrophes probably occur in several timelines (e.g. Hobus, though in STO it was artificially done by Praetor Taris and a Reman faction).

STO has nice stories, e.g. the Devidian incursion into the Eta Eridani sector block, attempting to pull it into their phase. Or the ongoing New Romulus plotline: D'tan building a new home for Romulans and Remans and the attempt to finally change the ways of the Romulans.

The thing I don't like - but it is dictated by the nature of it being a game - are the multiple wars. I'd rather see a future where the Federation peacefully absorbs all of its neighbours and grows to encounter the next cycle of angry powers (e.g. Fen Domar, Hirogen, Vomnin).

 

[Christopher]

^I'm surprised you think the Vomnin would go on a list of "angry powers." They're not particularly aggressive, and in fact are one of the more responsible and constructive societies in the Gum Nebula region, participating in major peacekeeping efforts like cosmozoan regulation. And we know from Watching the Clock that their cooperation with other major powers -- including the Federation -- to guard against threats to galactic safety continues into the future.

Of the Gum Nebula powers I established in Orion's Hounds, the most warlike and irrational would be the Fethetrit.

And we don't really know if the Fen Domar are "angry," just that they got into a battle with Voyager in the "Endgame" future and damaged Janeway's favorite coffee cup. We don't know if that battle was the result of Fen Domar aggression or a simple misunderstanding of the sort that underlies many battles in Trek. Maybe they just had a cultural taboo against caffeinated beverages.

 

[F. King Daniel]

My random thoughts, without the benefit of paragraphs: I vote average, but a high average, if that makes sense. I wasn't as gripped for the first half as I was in Persistence of Memory, but things picked up in a big way. I liked the return of Master Bateson, and I smiled at the Ship of the Line reference. The Orions seem to live and dress an awful lot like 21st century humans. Their world is kinda like a modern version of a TOS "60's Earth planet" - an interesting change of pace after exploring so many alien cultures recently. Data 2.0 continues to be familiar yet uncomfortably different. I'm not sure how Geordi isn't more freaked out by his BFF's human-ish tendencies. The damaged Breen androids were described almost exactly like Terminators, right down to the glowing red eyes, which was kind of cheesy. We've seen Soong-type androids damaged before and while they've never looked the same twice they never resembled a Terminator. The big reveal at the end was kind of a "WTF?" - I assume from comments in this thread it was the mirror universe the Breen wormhole-drive ship was from but unless it's setting up something in book 3, it felt like the reason for everything was plucked at random from a hat. I did very much like Šmrhová. Let's hope she lasts!

Roll on The Body Electric...

 

[Markonian]

Okay, let's call them "major powers". And because we don't know anything about the Fen Domar, anything goes.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

And because we don't know anything about the Fen Domar, anything goes.

It would be funny if the Fen Domar weren't a powerful race at all and were really the Delta Quadrant's equivalent of the Pakleds. The "battle" consists of a scuffle in Janeway's ready room when the Fen Domarian delegates try to steal the cup and then drop it.

 

[Christopher]

Actually by the time alt-Voyager encountered them, they would've been in the Beta Quadrant. They were nearly to the Delta-Beta border as of "Endgame."

 

[Hartzilla2007]

However, I am for keeping Countdown with the novel continuity as it worked well as a ST09 prequel and was well written.

I'd rather not as I felt it was too fanwanky and really it seemed Star Trek (2009) seemed to be ignoring it for the most part.

 

[Paper Moon]

The thing I don't like - but it is dictated by the nature of it being a game - are the multiple wars. I'd rather see a future where the Federation peacefully absorbs all of its neighbours and grows to encounter the next cycle of angry powers (e.g. Fen Domar, Hirogen, Vomnin).

This please. I agree with Christopher that the Vomnin aren't exactly angry, but they certainly could produce dramatic stories if they interacted with the Federation on a larger scale. I think we're not that close to seeing much of the Hirogen yet, but I'd love to see the Fen Domar.

I'd also love to see more of the Carnelian Regnancy and especially the Sheliak. [EDIT: Also, the Grigari and the First/Fesarian [!!!!] Federation, both of which were name-dropped by Mack in Silent Weapons, I believe.]

I mean, look at how the US's diplomatic relations have changed over 250 years: our first foe, Britain, is now our strongest ally. And other countries that were once diametrically opposed to us are now stalwart allies (such as Japan and Germany). On the other hand, our relations with China (which can't really be described as being positive overall) are much younger. It would make sense for the Federation to eventually make peace with its current neighbors and move on to new ones.

 

[Markonian]

I think we're not that close to seeing much of the Hirogen yet, but I'd love to see the Fen Domar.

In the novel The Needs of the Many the Hirogen have already reached the Beta Quadrant proper and later ally with Empress Sela. They've been nomadic for so long that they don't even remember having a homeworld. They could be anywhere in the galaxy by now.

It would make sense for the Federation to eventually make peace with its current neighbors and move on to new ones.

Yes! But that's probably stuff for the TrekLit productions when we come into the 25th and 26th centuries.

 

[Paper Moon]

I think we're not that close to seeing much of the Hirogen yet, but I'd love to see the Fen Domar.

In the novel The Needs of the Many the Hirogen have already reached the Beta Quadrant proper and later ally with Empress Sela. They've been nomadic for so long that they don't even remember having a homeworld. They could be anywhere in the galaxy by now.

Good point, I had forgotten both about their alliance and their nomadic nature.

That said, of course, TNotM is definitely is an alternative timeline, and I don't particularly see a need for too much creative cross-pollination between the two. (Lol, I just saw your post in the other thread where you use the same phrase! Ha! That was totally unintentional.) I mean, I don't mind it, but it seems to me that we don't need the same story told twice, and I would just as soon get two highly disparate interpretations of the post-Nemesis Trekverse.

And, truth be told, I don't find the prospect of Hirogen stories particularly exciting. But I'm sure I could be convinced otherwise.

It would make sense for the Federation to eventually make peace with its current neighbors and move on to new ones.

Yes! But that's probably stuff for the TrekLit productions when we come into the 25th and 26th centuries.

Mm, depending on the direction they go in, I could see it happening sooner. But yeah, probably a ways off.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Actually by the time alt-Voyager encountered them, they would've been in the Beta Quadrant. They were nearly to the Delta-Beta border as of "Endgame."

Oh, yes, I forgot how close they were to the border when the show endede.

 

[zarkon]

I'd rather not as I felt it was too fanwanky and really it seemed Star Trek (2009) seemed to be ignoring it for the most part.

I wish I could ignore '09

It's now been sixteen years since a 'trek film that I really enjoyed came out.

le sigh

 

[JD]

I think we're not that close to seeing much of the Hirogen yet, but I'd love to see the Fen Domar.

In the novel The Needs of the Many the Hirogen have already reached the Beta Quadrant proper and later ally with Empress Sela. They've been nomadic for so long that they don't even remember having a homeworld. They could be anywhere in the galaxy by now.

Good point, I had forgotten both about their alliance and their nomadic nature.

That said, of course, TNotM is definitely is an alternative timeline, and I don't particularly see a need for too much creative cross-pollination between the two. (Lol, I just saw your post in the other thread where you use the same phrase! Ha! That was totally unintentional.) I mean, I don't mind it, but it seems to me that we don't need the same story told twice, and I would just as soon get two highly disparate interpretations of the post-Nemesis Trekverse.

And, truth be told, I don't find the prospect of Hirogen stories particularly exciting. But I'm sure I could be convinced otherwise.

I'm kind of baffled by the idea of the Hirogen becoming a bigger antagonistic race. I thought things between them and Voyager ended positively in the episode with the holograms?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I'd rather not as I felt it was too fanwanky and really it seemed Star Trek (2009) seemed to be ignoring it for the most part.

I wish I could ignore '09

Interesting but, why not save that for threads actually about Trek '09.

 

[Christopher]

I'm kind of baffled by the idea of the Hirogen becoming a bigger antagonistic race. I thought things between them and Voyager ended positively in the episode with the holograms?

Well, by their very nature, the Hirogen are not a single uniform society or state. They're thousands of distinct nomadic groups, all presumably operating independently of one another. Making peace with one group of them doesn't mean making peace with all of them. The hope was that the new technology and attitudes would propagate through the civilization as they found that there was a better way, but it seems likely that there would be traditionalists who resisted the change, and perhaps became more militantly devoted to their traditions as a result of the pressure to change.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'm kind of baffled by the idea of the Hirogen becoming a bigger antagonistic race. I thought things between them and Voyager ended positively in the episode with the holograms?

Ditto Species 8472. As far as I can tell, in the Star Trek Online 'verse everybody is at war with everybody.

I guess space battles are more fun to play than inviting fellow captains over for a cup of Earl Grey.

 

[zarkon]

Interesting but, why not save that for threads actually about Trek '09.

Don't try to put me into a box man

I guess space battles are more fun to play than inviting fellow captains over for a cup of Earl Grey.

Yeah, having everyone at each others throats just works for the genre. A Final Unity is a nice cerebral TNG game though. Surprised no-one's ever tried an ascendancy style galactic conquest/diplomacy style game, would suit trek quite nicely too.

 

[Christopher]

I guess space battles are more fun to play than inviting fellow captains over for a cup of Earl Grey.

There are other options. In the old 25th-anniversary computer game, I found the obligatory space-battle portions to be annoying interruptions of the main game play, which was more about exploring and solving problems and puzzles. I found the puzzles frustrating and usually had to fall back on the cheat sheet or walkthrough or whatever it's called, but at least it was more interesting than the battles.