TNG Rewatch: 5x23 - "I, Borg"

[sonak]

One of Trek's great philosophical episodes. You don't have to agree with it to be good either.

So to get to the key issue...the malicious program! We assume it means certain death for the Borg IF it works. I doubt it would have. Apparently Hugh himself caused SOME havoc according to Descent, but ultimately that is localized too. My gut tells me Picard made the right choice in not using it anyway. I don't think most people wanted to wipe out Germany 100% after the war (though some surely did). Genocide is a very tough choice to make.

I suggested at the time it came out, that if ST wanted to move on from the Borg, they could have created a different outcome of collective AI that WAS NOT like the Borg, one where it heightened virtues and eliminated petty jealousies and parochial thinking in favor of enlightenement. They would use evolution's greatest strength...cooperation to defeat or hold off the Borg. Starfleet moves on.

RAMA

I think the borg were potential much better villains than they later turned out to be.

Eh, I think they were the type of villain who was FANTASTIC for a few appearances, but that inevitably decline because what makes them so awesome is that they're fairly original(cybermen?) and that they were so much more powerful than the ones who the main characters usually face.

I just don't see how they remain great villains if you use them past "First Contact." Lore remained a great villain since he was only used sparingly.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

There is a fundamental difference between Hugh and every borg freed from the collective in Voyager and that's that contrary to them, Hugh doesn't seem to have any pre-assimilation memories of any kind. Even Seven that was assimilated at a very young age had them.


Do you think Hugh was born borg?

 

[Taelon]

Or he was assimilated as a baby. It's not unknown for babies to be assimilated and placed in drawers. Kind of like a baby filing cabinet bassinet.

(Sometime the Borg babies are even rescued and promptly forgotten about a week later.)

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Or he was assimilated as a baby. It's not unknown for babies to be assimilated and placed in drawers. Kind of like a baby filing cabinet bassinet.

(Sometime the Borg babies are even rescued and promptly forgotten about a week later.)

 

[Memory Alpha]

Hugh was probably "born Borg." If we're to assume continuity, and maybe we shouldn't, but nonetheless in "Q Who?" the babies who are being turned into Borg look precisely human. I think a lot of that had to do with the original allegory of a person losing his or her identity in institutional bureaucracy, which really was genius, but nevertheless that's what was depicted. They're very human-like. I also think we have to assume that most human-looking Borg are really Borg.

The other issue that this episode raised was, are the Borg really this close to Federation space? Originally, they weren't at all, and in Voyager they're not, but this seems to imply that they are?? IDK.

This is a story that aims to humanize the intractable foe and as such as is pretty predictable and average. Returning Hugh to the collective, though, is an egregious misstep, and I'm surprised Picard and Crusher did not face at least a hearing over it. Three-of-Five clearly should have been turned over to Starfleet for obvious reasons, but also to allow his individuality to develop or return.

The notion seemed to be that Hugh's nanodevices made him trackable and they couldn't disable the devices without harming him, they could only put him in a shielded area to block the signals. So there was pretty much no way they could take Hugh anywhere without Hugh eventually being tracked down to Starfleet.

And even if the -D left with Hugh in containment the Borg were already enroute becuase they knew about the crashed scout ship. So the Borg would track warp signatures or whatever to find their missing drone.

Now, what is hard to accept is that The Borg would expend resources and time to track down a crashed ship and a handful of missing drones. You'd think they'd just shrug them off and go about their business.

I think it's even more likely that they would remotely trigger the self destruct procedure as the loss of a few drones means nothing to them.

Yeah, you guys might be right. I'm just surprised that it's never even seriously explored as an option (most of the episode is Picard's soul searching). Like, it's so obvious to me that "We need to find a way to get this guy back to headquarters." Either way, Picard made the wrong move, IMO. You have to try to debilitate the Borg. I also agree that the plans discussed to do just that could have been better. I don't see that introducing Hugh as an individual would be that insidious since all the Borg would probably do is just re-assimiliate him.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Hugh was probably "born Borg." If we're to assume continuity, and maybe we shouldn't, but nonetheless in "Q Who?" the babies who are being turned into Borg look precisely human. I think a lot of that had to do with the original allegory of a person losing his or her identity in institutional bureaucracy, which really was genius, but nevertheless that's what was depicted. They're very human-like. I also think we have to assume that most human-looking Borg are really Borg.

The other issue that this episode raised was, are the Borg really this close to Federation space? Originally, they weren't at all, and in Voyager they're not, but this seems to imply that they are?? IDK.

The notion seemed to be that Hugh's nanodevices made him trackable and they couldn't disable the devices without harming him, they could only put him in a shielded area to block the signals. So there was pretty much no way they could take Hugh anywhere without Hugh eventually being tracked down to Starfleet.

And even if the -D left with Hugh in containment the Borg were already enroute becuase they knew about the crashed scout ship. So the Borg would track warp signatures or whatever to find their missing drone.

Now, what is hard to accept is that The Borg would expend resources and time to track down a crashed ship and a handful of missing drones. You'd think they'd just shrug them off and go about their business.

I think it's even more likely that they would remotely trigger the self destruct procedure as the loss of a few drones means nothing to them.

Yeah, you guys might be right. I'm just surprised that it's never even seriously explored as an option (most of the episode is Picard's soul searching). Like, it's so obvious to me that "We need to find a way to get this guy back to headquarters." Either way, Picard made the wrong move, IMO. You have to try to debilitate the Borg. I also agree that the plans discussed to do just that could have been better. I don't see that introducing Hugh as an individual would be that insidious since all the Borg would probably do is just re-assimiliate him.

Very true. All the people they assimilate are attached to their individuality, so it shouldn't bother them one bit. Picard's reasoning is completely off.

 

[Trekker4747]

Do you think Hugh was born borg?

It's possible. We see in "Q Who" that the Borg are born as a biological being as they have a "nursery" on the cubes. But as I recall it took Seven quite some time for her pre-Borg memories to come forward and re-assert themselves. It could be like anyone who has suffered from long term stress and/or captivity where certain memories are simply blocked.

It's possible had Hugh spent more time out of the collective and if more and more of his implants had gotten removed and he became more man than machine his memories could have reasserted themselves.

 

[tomalak301]

Good episode that I've gained an appreciation for over time. Nothing too terribly special but it added a new dimension to the Borg.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

When Hugh says: "I want to stay with Geordi! " there's real brotherly affection in his voice.