Spoilers TNG: Hearts and Minds by Dayton Ward Review Thread

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Defcon, May 15, 2017.

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Rate Hearts and Minds

  1. Outstanding

    6 vote(s)
    18.2%
  2. Above Average

    16 vote(s)
    48.5%
  3. Average

    8 vote(s)
    24.2%
  4. Below Average

    2 vote(s)
    6.1%
  5. Poor

    1 vote(s)
    3.0%
  1. Ronald Held

    Ronald Held Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That is a plausible scenario, Sci. I expect him either to remain a Captain until he dies or is unable to perform his duties.
    Is it irony that Kirk ended up as a Captain, unlikely to have been promoted had he lived past 2294, and the same for Picard?
     
  2. Jarvisimo

    Jarvisimo Captain Captain

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    Go back and reread A Time to Kill and A Time to Heal, it's not black and white - you're simplifying too much here, Sci (unless you are playing devil's advocate?).
     
  3. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I remember those books quite well. I understand why Picard did what he did -- he honestly felt that Zife's crimes were too vast to allow him to stay in office, but he also genuinely believed that to expose Zife's crimes would be to risk a war with the Klingon Empire that would get billions of people killed. I understand and respect the fact that he took the course of action that he felt least likely to cause so many deaths.

    But that doesn't mean that what he did was not a subversion of Federation democracy. It doesn't mean that he did not think he knew better than the people of the Federation. That does not mean it was not still a plot to force the legitimately-elected President out of office at gunpoint.

    And I am deeply troubled that neither Picard, nor his co-conspirators, seem to have considered at least two other options: the possibility of publicly exposing Zife's crimes and then the Federation extraditing Zife to Qo'noS to face trial in the Klingon judicial system; or the possibility of disclosing Zife's crimes to the Federation Council, and allowing the democratically-elected Federation Council decide whether or not to impeach Zife.
     
  4. hbquikcomjamesl

    hbquikcomjamesl Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Wow. Definitely an E-ticket ride, this one. And now I know why the subject of the Zife Incident kept coming up in this thread.
     
  5. Jarvisimo

    Jarvisimo Captain Captain

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    True, those are good concerns! And Control to some extent shows how Mack was aware of these issues and decided confront them.
     
  6. ATimson

    ATimson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I find it interesting that everybody seems to be focusing on the ramifications of Picard's past actions. To me, there's a bigger question in the present: why was Picard and his crew so gung-ho that they felt the need to shoot their way out when Hilanu (spelling? I listened to the audiobook so that may be wrong :)) tried to take them into custody?

    I honestly expected them to cooperate, to work with the system to uncover the truth, instead of (yet again) going around it at gunpoint. (If the evidence that the dissenters stole was made available to their defense, that could have happened without any bloodshed.)

    Honestly, I'm thinking that Picard probably deserves to be drummed out of the service.
     
  7. Reanok

    Reanok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've only read seven chapters of the book so far it's been interesting .Admiral Akaar being so secretive and sneaky about the mission they were sent out to the odyssean pass certainly made Captain Picard angry at Admiral Akaar and Taurik working for the DTI and keeping secrets for the past 3 months. It certainly is going to cause major trouble for the Enterprise crew..
     
  8. Csalem

    Csalem Commodore Commodore

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    I voted Average. It was an ok story, but would be nice to get a book where Worf and Picard are not split up, and one is trying to rescue the other. The book also seemed to spend longer in the past than the present, and as a result the plot with Picard on the planet seemed to get resolved very quickly.
     
  9. David cgc

    David cgc Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    It was really just the Vulcan security officer who freaked out. Picard was trying to stop her before there was any gunfire. As for why they were so eager to escape, they'd been treated with barely-concieled hostility since they arrived. It wouldn't be out of the question to react as if it had been some sort of trap (which it was). Working within the system didn't seem like it'd be the most successful possible option. On the other hand, I remember a certain someone thinking something similar in "Disavowed" and being proven wrong, so maybe it would've all worked out if Picard rode the rap.

    Oh, and there was also the show-trial and brutal execution of the original Earth crew. Guess they don't have double jeopardy on that planet.
     
  10. ATimson

    ATimson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nobody in the 24th century knew that it was a show trial at the time. And while the three who (supposedly) pushed the button had been tried, the chain of command above them was equally culpable and had yet to be tried.
     
  11. David cgc

    David cgc Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    It was described as being pretty show-trialy. The accused were chained to a wall, confused, uncommunicative, and had the appearance of being drugged. They were executed the moment the verdict was read, and there was a cheering crowd in attendance. It's possible the first part of the recording that Picard saw but we didn't had the local Sam Cogley or Colonel Worf giving a defense for the ages (which may or may not have actually happened, since it's certain no one would want the crew to say what they really did at the real show trial) on how Earth could reasonably have felt provoked by alien colonizers showing up at their door, but it all seems like it was pretty pointless aside from lifting the spirits of the survivors and ensuring no one contradicted the official story of who fired the first shot in the nuclear war.

    And if the crew wasn't an acceptable avatar of the decision makers who sent them, Picard certainly wasn't. He's just as far down the chain, and three hundred years removed. I'd at least have some sympathy if they were demanding reparations of some sort, or even telling the Enterprise that if any ship that had even heard the word "Earth" came their way they'd shoot it down, but it seemed like they were just hoping to put an endless line of humans up against a wall until they felt better or they ran out of humans.
     
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  12. hbquikcomjamesl

    hbquikcomjamesl Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Uh, what does double jeopardy have to do with trying alleged conspirators? Double jeopardy is about being re-tried for a crime of which one has already been acquitted.
     
  13. David cgc

    David cgc Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    That's the wrong term, but it was the closest I can think of. There's got to be some kind of problem with trying, convicting, and passing sentence an entity (in this case, the people of the Earth, as represented by the crew of the "attacking" ship), and then trying to re-convict the same entity for the same crime again later (once more, the people of Earth, as represented by the next human they see, Picard). If executing the crew of the ship didn't satisfy their need for justice, that's what war is for. Not waiting around to kidnap any descendants who either won't have a clue about the attack, will be ashamed of it if they know, or, worst case, will have three hundred years' more practice at Dark-Foresting uppity civilizations. In any case, there's no chance that any other human they meet will be as responsible for the alleged attack as the people who carried it out originally, and if they want more, they'd need to go state to state in one way or another, not violating diplomatic hospitality to kidnap whatever randos happened by.
     
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  14. 20fridge

    20fridge Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    ^ There is the fact that it provides a scapegoat for any current problems and a distraction from other issues, not to mention cheap political points...
     
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  15. David cgc

    David cgc Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Well, yeah, but I'm more going from the perspective of why Picard (and, more importantly, his security escort) didn't have a lot of reasons to totally surrender and expect that everything would work out once he'd had his day in court and all the facts were made plain.
     
  16. Reanok

    Reanok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I just finished the book this morning I voted Above average. I thought the books atoryarcs that take place during the twenty first century and the Twenty fourth century story arcs with the Ezriard alien incident being intertwined was really interesting.. I liked seeing Mestral appearing in the story and Gay Seven again. I look forward to reading another new Star Trek novel from Dayton Ward someday :bolian:.
     
  17. Hardtarget

    Hardtarget Ensign Red Shirt

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    Polished this bad boy off today. I really enjoyed it although I suspect I would have gotten more out of it if I had read Dayton's previous TOS books that dealt with these characters.

    The only negative aspect I really felt from the book was that to me it felt like all the characters form the 2030s didn't really have any payoff. By the end of it only Mestral is still around, there's really no conclusion to the Director's arc, she dies offscreen, and it felt like they didn't add much to the story. All the Aegis stuff probably could have been cut from the book completely and it wouldn't have really changed the story or my understanding of it :\
     
  18. Procutus

    Procutus Admiral Admiral

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    ^
    I finally finished reading it last night. I do agree that there was a lack of payoff for the characters in the flashbacks but that being said, I actually enjoyed the flashbacks and the Aegis story much more than the TNG sections. Part of this is due to the fact that I did read Dayton's previous two novels dealing with MJ-12 plotline, and part is due to the fact that I haven't read any of the TNG novels leading up to this. For that reason, it was hard to get a handle on the newer Enterprise crew whom I'd never read before.

    I loved the final part with Seven and Mestral, and I think there's a lot more there to be explored, in the years leading up to the ENT era. I hope that at some point Dayton decides to play around with these ideas again and writes a continuation.