Spoilers TNG: A Singular Destiny by Keith R.A. DeCandido review thread

[KRAD]

It was the way one character talked about the story of Joseph and how it used to be part of the mythology of two of Earth's biggest religions.

That isn't what I intended at all from Sonek's line, which actually was (from page 257): "Two of the biggest religions humans ever had had the story of Joseph as part of its mythology."

Looking back, that second "had" should be "have," or maybe "got," given the manner in which Sonek speaks. How-some-ever, given that I created Captain David Gold of the U.S.S. da Vinci, a practicing Jew married to a rabbi, I don't think I can be accused of saying Judaism is dead in the 24th century.

Anyhow, no intent to marginalize or say that humans have outgrown religion was intended by that line, and I do apologize for the lack of clarity of language that made you think so. Thanks for pointing it out...

 

[William Leisner]

If anything, that line might be interpretted to suggest the story of Joseph had been dropped from Jewish and/or Christian teaching; I don't see how it could be twisted to mean there is no longer any Judeo-Christian tradition.

And even if a man whose family tree has roots on four different planets (understandably) doesn't wholehearted belief in any one faith, that doesn't negate the existance of those faiths, or their adherents.

 

[Strider]

If anything, that line might be interpretted to suggest the story of Joseph had been dropped from Jewish and/or Christian teaching; I don't see how it could be twisted to mean there is no longer any Judeo-Christian tradition.

It seemed to me that wording suggested that humans "had religions", not "have religions". It's no matter.

KRAD's explanation is more than satisfactory to me. There's been occasions in the past (especially on TNG) where religion is treated as something that's pretty much just for babies and humans evolved beyond it. It's always made me a little sad because it just made Roddenberry and by extension Trek seem narrow. It was handled far better by the time of DS9, and that's a pattern that certainly seems to have continued with Trek Lit. I'm glad of that. I'd forgotten the example of Captain Gold. That's a good one.

Also, I enjoyed that bit Sonek said about how practically anything can be solved if people just talk about it enough, and on the plus side it means people get to live longer. I'm paraphrasing, need to look that up. It's about the simplest rationale for diplomacy I've heard in a while. Might have to steal that line to use in history class (I teach high school social studies).

 

[Christopher]

There's been occasions in the past (especially on TNG) where religion is treated as something that's pretty much just for babies and humans evolved beyond it. It's always made me a little sad because it just made Roddenberry and by extension Trek seem narrow.

I'm not sure I agree with that interpretation. The primary instance that's seen this way is in "Who Watches the Watchers?," in which the Mintakans' adoption of a superstition based on "the Picard" is talked about as a backward step for their culture. But I don't interpret that as a dismissal of religion so much as a critique of superstition and blind faith, and particularly of using religion as an excuse for violence. When Liko is ready to kill the hostages to try to placate "the Picard," Deanna says "That's the trouble with belief in a supreme being -- you can never be sure what they really want." I can certainly see how that could be taken as a dismissal of religion, but I see it more as a warning against fundamentalism -- saying that you have to be very careful what actions you take in the name of your belief, since you can't be sure whether they're really the will of God or just your own beliefs that you're using God as an excuse for.

 

[KRAD]

Also, I enjoyed that bit Sonek said about how practically anything can be solved if people just talk about it enough, and on the plus side it means people get to live longer. I'm paraphrasing, need to look that up. It's about the simplest rationale for diplomacy I've heard in a while. Might have to steal that line to use in history class (I teach high school social studies).

Here's the line (from page 210: "There's no problem anywhere that can't be solved by two or more rational people sitting down and talking, and it means people get to live longer. There's an old human saying: 'I don't want to achieve immortality through my work, I want to achieve immortality through not dying.' Nonviolence is a good way to accomplish that, seems to me."

I'm rather proud of that bit, actually, and would be honored if you stole it. (The "immortality through not dying" quote is by Woody Allen, and is one of my two favoritest quotes ever.)

 

[Strider]

@Christopher: I wonder if that was the intent of the writers, but any rate I think the interpretation you gave is one that even the devoutly religious can agree with. God preserve me from ever hating someone in the name of my faith.

Here's the line (from page 210: "There's no problem anywhere that can't be solved by two or more rational people sitting down and talking, and it means people get to live longer. There's an old human saying: 'I don't want to achieve immortality through my work, I want to achieve immortality through not dying.' Nonviolence is a good way to accomplish that, seems to me."

I'm rather proud of that bit, actually, and would be honored if you stole it. (The "immortality through not dying" quote is by Woody Allen, and is one of my two favoritest quotes ever.)

Thanks! Consider yourself honored, I guess. I'm just starting this whole teaching thing, I take ideas and quotes and stories that I like whenever I get the chance.

Back in my own high school days (not all too long ago I guess) I remember being somewhat more hard core about the necessity of violence or military action in a "hard" world where we needed to get our way or else someone else would. I'm glad I had some teachers and friends and good books that reminded that the best things about life are things like having kids and enjoying your friends and line dancing and going for a walk. Stuff like that. Everything else in life should be there just to ensure that as many people as humanly possible can enjoy those things too. That's the great thing about reasonable people talking, as you say. That's why that line resonated with me, I guess.

 

[Paris]

A Singular Destiny...Did anyone notice???**MASSIVE SPOILERS**

I'm only on page 207 as I just got my copy yesterday, but did anyone else notice that on page 116 and 117 (the casualty report from sector 22093) we see two very familiar Voyager names? I know people lost their minds after Before Dishonor and Janeway, and now these two occur "off-page"...I'm sure Full Circle will deal with it. Thoughts?

 

[DimesDan]

Re: A Singular Destiny...Did anyone notice???**MASSIVE SPOILERS**

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but this has already been discussed in the A Singular Destiny review/spoiler thread.

 

[Paris]

Re: A Singular Destiny...Did anyone notice???**MASSIVE SPOILERS**

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but this has already been discussed in the A Singular Destiny review/spoiler thread.

OOPS I hadn't been looking in the thread as I was avoiding spoilers, and then I couldn't find mention of it when I looked. What page of the thread does it start?

 

[DimesDan]

Re: A Singular Destiny...Did anyone notice???**MASSIVE SPOILERS**

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but this has already been discussed in the A Singular Destiny review/spoiler thread.

OOPS I hadn't been looking in the thread as I was avoiding spoilers, and then I couldn't find mention of it when I looked. What page of the thread does it start?

I don't exactly have time to look through it myself but start from the beginning and it'll be one of the first major spoiler tags.

 

[Paris]

Re: A Singular Destiny...Did anyone notice???**MASSIVE SPOILERS**

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but this has already been discussed in the A Singular Destiny review/spoiler thread.

OOPS I hadn't been looking in the thread as I was avoiding spoilers, and then I couldn't find mention of it when I looked. What page of the thread does it start?

I don't exactly have time to look through it myself but start from the beginning and it'll be one of the first major spoiler tags.

Okay. Thanks a lot dude Multiple threads about the same thing can be a pain in the ass.

 

[Newspaper Taxi]

In a city less than 100 miles away from where I live there's a person close to the same age as me. The freaky thing is that this person's mother is also the name of my mother -- although they are two separate people.

How anti-climatic would it be if the two shocking casualty deaths were people that just happened to have the names as major characters? I mean, it's a big quadrant and all.

 

[LightningStorm]

Re: A Singular Destiny...Did anyone notice???**MASSIVE SPOILERS**

Okay. Thanks a lot dude Multiple threads about the same thing can be a pain in the ass.

Thankfully there's the Magic Merge™.

 

[Thrawn]

In a city less than 100 miles away from where I live there's a person close to the same age as me. The freaky thing is that this person's mother is also the name of my mother -- although they are two separate people.

How anti-climatic would it be if the two shocking casualty deaths were people that just happened to have the names as major characters? I mean, it's a big quadrant and all.

In real life, things like that happen fairly frequently, but as a dramatic device it would be entirely stupid for an author to consider. I can guarantee that isn't the case.

 

[William Leisner]

In a city less than 100 miles away from where I live there's a person close to the same age as me. The freaky thing is that this person's mother is also the name of my mother -- although they are two separate people.

How anti-climatic would it be if the two shocking casualty deaths were people that just happened to have the names as major characters? I mean, it's a big quadrant and all.

In real life, things like that happen fairly frequently, but as a dramatic device it would be entirely stupid for an author to consider. I can guarantee that isn't the case.

So, then, the Margaret Mitchell in that report isn't the resurrected author of Gone With the Wind? Because I was really looking forward to that story...

 

[elaithin]

Well, I finished the book last night.

As expected, I quite enjoyed it. I found the new character, Professor Sonek Pran, to be an incredibly fascinating addition to the "Articles" cast. I enjoyed the further development of the Aventine crew, most especially Bowers and Kedair. (Say, whatever happened to Leishman hitting on Geordi?) I'm a little dissapointed that we get no updates from the Bajor sector, but as that would at least partially reveal the fates of the DS9R cast, I suppose I understand why we didn't. Harrumph.

Overall, I think my favorite bits were actually the vignettes. The Captain's logs, the letters, the transcripts and the like. The one that affected me the most was the suicide note. Kudos, KRAD, for putting a very human face on such massive tragedy. That was very well done.

As for that casualty list? I beleive the phrase "magnificent bastard" has been tossed around - and it's well-earned.

And... the Typhon Pact. I always, always wondered why something like this had never happened before, and I very much look forward to seeing where it goes. Honestly, I hope it doesn't lead to another war because... well, been there, done that. But still... should be fun.

Overall, KRAD, great work. I now eagerly await Over a Torrent Sea and Losing the Peace.

 

[KRAD]

^ Thanks so much! I'm particularly glad you enjoyed the interstitial bits.

And, it must once again be said: MINE IS AN EVIL LAUGH!

 

[Paris]

Just finished (in just less than 24 hours!), and I must say that with KRAD's track record (Gorkon, Peace/War, AotF) I had some high expectations. ASD exceeded my expectations and I can't wait for the rest 2009's post-Destiny. I really liked that we got quite the look at how things shaked out for all the major characters from the Gorkon from 2376-81. It's exactly what I was hoping for.

 

[KRAD]

^ Thanks so much!

 

[Newspaper Taxi]

In a city less than 100 miles away from where I live there's a person close to the same age as me. The freaky thing is that this person's mother is also the name of my mother -- although they are two separate people.

How anti-climatic would it be if the two shocking casualty deaths were people that just happened to have the names as major characters? I mean, it's a big quadrant and all.

In real life, things like that happen fairly frequently, but as a dramatic device it would be entirely stupid for an author to consider. I can guarantee that isn't the case.

Oh, it's super stupid, and that's why I find it amusing. I'll elaborate:

Character X gets a transmission and opens channels.

"Character X...All we found of Character Y was her left-secondary wing. Now there's some options on what you can -- huh? Character Y doesn't have wings and is male? Are you sure? I see. *Sigh.* Well, sorry to bother you. Somewhere out there, though, someone has lost a loved one named Character Y and it's the Federation's duty to contact them. Good bye. Okay Frankie, let's try the next Family XY on the list -- "

(Space Dial Phone sound + image. Sound is drowned out by an angry mob of Trek-Lit fans assaulting the wise-ass writer.)