TMP Re-Edit & Restoration Project - Ideas, Feedback, Advise

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Synnöve, Feb 12, 2014.

  1. Synnöve

    Synnöve Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    <- Here's a rough edit of the pod ride/Enterprise tour (includes a new composited shot). About one minute shorter than the theatrical edit.

    Let me know what you think! Need 3rd party perspective on how it flows.
     
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  2. Nightowl1701

    Nightowl1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not bad for an early attempt, though those music cuts... man. I'm sorry, but that particular Goldsmith piece is one where you just have to take it whole or not at all.

    I had actually had an idea on how to punch up the pod ride, or at least make it less interminable. (Feel free to laugh at it.) It involves...

    - From the Paramount logo, briefly fade up 'In the 23'rd Century...'. Then straight into the Klingon Battle.
    - After the Vulcan elder says her farewell to Spock, flash up the first three credits before the main title, in sync with the music. Make the audience think you're about to blast the title on the screen as the music builds...
    - Then don't. No credits as Kirk returns to Starfleet Command.
    - When we go up to orbit and the station approaches, the cast is listed one by one, ending with Ilia at the closeup of the station pod.
    - As we reach the first part of the pod tour (starting at 1:29 in your video), the remaining credits after the cast (No main title, not yet) flash up one at a time, only when the Enterprise is on screen (helping partially block her from our view). Almost gives you the impression Kirk and Scotty are reading the credits along with us. We reach Robert Wise's credit as the pod begins its turn.
    - Finally, the main title blasts on the screen in sync with the music at the start of the Enterprise reveal, fading fifteen seconds later (again, in sync with the music) to reveal the Enterprise whole at last.
    - Now, having been distracted by the credits up to this point, you have the second half of the tour to drink in the sight of the reborn ship along with Kirk, with no music edits needed.
     
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  3. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Honesty? It doesn't flow. The place to trim fat is while the pod is circling the dock's outside, and tighten all the cuts in general. The music... the cuts absolutely don't work. The music is surging where it shouldn't be. You're going to need someone who knows how to do music edits to cut that to fit.
     
  4. Synnöve

    Synnöve Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    The edits to the music were done in Avid and are only meant to illustrate where they would occur; any final editing would be done in a DAW program's spectral editor to make the transition as seamless as possible, and of course the beats would be matched.

    And while I much prefer the timing of the score from when Kirk looks down upon the saucer to the end of the clip, I must begrudgingly agree that the edits are somewhat harsh. I also agree that almost every shot needs to be shortened by several frames as you mentioned... I'd also advocate getting rid of the front of the saucer and the shot of the lights as I did in my edit. But I honestly don't see how I can take that much material out of the score without it being obvious. Would be a lot easier if the sheet music were available.

    Honestly, if I could just remove the two shots I mentioned, or replace them with something else, I'd be content. No idea how to do that, though.

    Also would love to find a way to get rid of that shot where the engineering guy runs through the door as it's closing; absolutely no purpose to that shot.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  5. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My point isn't about the beats but that musically you have to know where to cut so the music doesn't feel sliced up,so it flows. I have friends who do that stuff for a living, but I'm know musically inclined enough to do more than a hatchet job.

    You might actually want to come at the problem the problem the opposite way: see if it's possible the adjust the music and recut the picture to match it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
  6. Synnöve

    Synnöve Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I'll see what I can do.

    What are people's thoughts on keeping the "scramble our molecules" bit from McCoy? If I recall correctly, the rationale for removing it was that, since it takes place after a couple people died in the transporter, the joke doesn't work. That being said, the film benefits from little character bits like that (I guess the line is a reference to what he said in Space Seed?).
     
  7. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I hate the delivery of that line. Also, I know why they cut it: it's redundant. Uhura's "refusing to step into the transporter" line does the same job without telegraphing the joke. We're left going "I bet it's Bones" instead of having it hit us right between the eyes.
     
  8. Nightowl1701

    Nightowl1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I say keep it in. Not for the joke aspect, as much as for the family reunion aspect. Had it been in the theatrical edit, the audience would have been sharing Kirk/Rand's knowing smile as they realized it was McCoy about to board. It takes a little of the sting out of what (otherwise in the theatrical edit) is a rather chilly moment that follows between Kirk and McCoy, and gives Rand at least a few more seconds of screen time. I agree with you, we need more of those reassuring grace moments (no pun intended) in the film, not less.

    In my personal fanedit (the one I keep in my head), I have 'Doctor Bartender' playing starting from when McCoy starts to beam in, to add to that 'coming back home' feel.
     
  9. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, I'm in the camp that says reduce reaction shots but keep all the character dialogue. It would have been nice if they could have squeezed in an extra line or so for Rand, delivering coffee to Kirk and McCoy while they observed Ilia so that she had a presence in the second half of the movie.
     
  10. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No no. You don't have the transporter chief playing valet. Rand could have been in engineering working with Scott and given some of the lines the engineers had, or even the deleted self destruct dialog.
     
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  11. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah that would have been cool too but just like STIV, it's sterile dialogue. It would have been nice to have some personal interaction with her former co-leads. I make tea and coffee for my friends all the time. Rand took Sulu his lunch when they were off duty. It could have been a character moment. Kirk makes a comment about engineers delivering food, Rand remembers how he forgets to eat properly. She asks a question about Ilia. Scene plays out as before.
     
  12. Nightowl1701

    Nightowl1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The only place I could theoretically see Rand fitting in would have been near the end as they're about to meet V'Ger. With the clock ticking down and the transporter room as easy to reach as a topside airlock, wouldn't Kirk have thought to simply beam over there and save the walk? At no point is it said the transporter beam was blocked, so it would have to be Ilia forcing them to take the long way. Or, as V'Ger starts merging with Decker/Ilia, have a tense last-second beam out to pull our terrific trio out of ground zero?

    Ah, but of course this is a movie, not a TV episode...
     
  13. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah I suppose they could have tried to add some dramatic excitement at the end. It would have given her a redeeming moment too. Originally there was going to be a Klingon fight too, although that might have felt tacked on.

    Don't forget though, she's a CPO, so one of the most senior, experienced non-commissioned officers on board and she stands with the senior officers in the Rec Deck scene. She doesn't have to stay stuck in the transporter room. She could have manned the engineering station on the bridge.
     
  14. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No, there was never going to be a Klingon fight at the end. Andrew Probert proposed it, and that's as far as it went.
     
  15. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, poorly phrased on my part. However, once the Unreal Engine takes off, we can tinker with digital images to our hearts' content. Bung in a Borg cube. Why not.