TMP or Abram's Enterprise, which design is better?

[RobertScorpio]

The Enterprise refit is a wonderful piece of sci-fi design/engineering.

The Nu-Enterprise is a prop, built at the wrong scale, for the sole purpose of mutilating an icon to represent one man's idiosyncratic take on a cultural force bigger than his imagination.

Quoted for truth.

Really....you can really say that with a straight face? Both of you? Star Trek's Iconic status has been beaten down for the past, oh, ten years or so. This movie, this new and VERY SUCCESSFUL movie, has made TREK "in" again.

I liked the movie..and I liked the nuENTERPRISE.

Rob

 

[SHCone]

There is something beautiful and powerful about the TMP refit.

But I like the NuEnterprise just a little but more I think, and here's why:

When the E was made in the 60's, they were trying, as all future-looking science fiction does, to figure out what we might advance towards. Hence data cards and disks and big knobs and blinking lights and such. Her outside was much the same, and on a budget. When TMP gave her an upgrade, it was still current with its time as a product of the 70's, trying to look forward.

The NuE is doing what any redesign of the Enterprise has tried to do. What Star Trek was trying to do: look forward from where we are. I think the NuE represents us well, having matured technologically far faster than anyone thought possible in the 60's and 70's. The last 20 years alone have been mind blowing as far as technology.

I think the NuE represents me well, so it wins out, but just a bit. The TMP E is always gonna be a sexy dame.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

The NuEnterprise and TMP Enterprise both look great onscreen, but between the two, the TMP E is the only one that looks great standing still. The NuE looked fine in the VFX shots, but looking at still images and 3d models, it just makes the reptile portion of my brain feel very confused. The proportions are seriously off. Although I do rather like the curvy and shiny asthetic, the NuE is slightly lacking in design unity, while the TMP E feels more like a harmonious whole to my eye.

I can speak without nostalgia blocking my head because the -D was my childhood Enterprise.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Really....you can really say that with a straight face? Both of you? Star Trek's Iconic status has been beaten down for the past, oh, ten years or so. This movie, this new and VERY SUCCESSFUL movie, has made TREK "in" again.

I liked the movie..and I liked the nuENTERPRISE.

Rob

Well, while I did enjoy the film a great deal, Abrams clearly had an agenda. I have zero interest in dredging up the "Trek Wars" debate again, but there is clearly enough evidence, both visual and conceptual, to support the theory. nuEnterprise is one glaring piece of such evidence.

I don't mean to imply his intentions to amputate and then recreate the franchise in his own misguided image were pre-conceived and malicious--quite the opposite, really. I think it was simply due to a lack of talent.

While, his talents as a writer and producer can be argued until doomsday, he simply isn't a very good director.

In fact, this nu/TMP refit Enterprise comparison presents an interesting parallel.

By dissecting both films simply by their technical merits, it's clear one was directed by a man who had a masterful understanding, of stage direction, pacing, set and art direction, scope, photographic simplicity, and cinematography (both spatial and luminary); the other wasn't.

Both films reached a similar level of monetary success. However, there is a fine line between "successful" and "commercial." TMP represents the former, nuTrek the latter.

 

[JuanBolio]

There is something beautiful and powerful about the TMP refit.

But I like the NuEnterprise just a little but more I think, and here's why:

When the E was made in the 60's, they were trying, as all future-looking science fiction does, to figure out what we might advance towards. Hence data cards and disks and big knobs and blinking lights and such. Her outside was much the same, and on a budget. When TMP gave her an upgrade, it was still current with its time as a product of the 70's, trying to look forward.

The NuE is doing what any redesign of the Enterprise has tried to do. What Star Trek was trying to do: look forward from where we are. I think the NuE represents us well, having matured technologically far faster than anyone thought possible in the 60's and 70's. The last 20 years alone have been mind blowing as far as technology.

I think the NuE represents me well, so it wins out, but just a bit. The TMP E is always gonna be a sexy dame.

Query - You seem to imply that the NuEnterprise is more technologically mature. What exactly can it do that the other two cannot?

 

[EnsignRicky]

TOS

 

[Anticitizen]

The 1701 and refit both look very much like somewhat logical extrapolations of the eras in which they were created.

This is what we were using in the 1960's:

And this was the media darling in 1979 (also featured in the horrid Bond movie, Moonraker, the same year):

Note the black-and-eggshell-white color scheme on this ship also called Enterprise, and the lines...

Both the TOS Enterprise and the refit look very much like something you might expect NASA to whip up, mixed up with some sci-fi flying saucer sensibilities.

The NuEnterprise looks like a design descendant of this:

and this:

This is because the new ship was not designed with the dream that man would someday take to the stars. It was designed as an ironical post-modern retro-futuristic reference to a cultural reference - a copy that no longer has an original. Welcome to the future

 

[SFRabid]

The Enterprise refit is a wonderful piece of sci-fi design/engineering.

The Nu-Enterprise is a prop, built at the wrong scale, for the sole purpose of mutilating an icon to represent one man's idiosyncratic take on a cultural force bigger than his imagination.

Quoted for truth.

Come on. Don't hold back. Tell us how much you really hate Abram's for taking Star Trek back to the masses again.

I'm torn between the two. I will say I like those two and the NX01 better than later ships that turned the bridge into a massive theater.

 

[Anwar]

Great, it's Final Fantasy 7 all over again. It made FF Mainstream and more popular so clearly it means the series now sucks.

NuTrek made Trek mainstream again so clearly it sucks , it's not like there are people in the production who want some prestige or respect...

 

[Anticitizen]

Final Fantasy is mainstream? I guess I'm further out of the loop than I thought.

 

[trevanian]

The 1701 and refit both look very much like somewhat logical extrapolations of the eras in which they were created.

This is what we were using in the 1960's:

And this was the media darling in 1979 (also featured in the horrid Bond movie, Moonraker, the same year):

Note the black-and-eggshell-white color scheme on this ship also called Enterprise, and the lines...

Both the TOS Enterprise and the refit look very much like something you might expect NASA to whip up, mixed up with some sci-fi flying saucer sensibilities.

The NuEnterprise looks like a design descendant of this:

and this:

This is because the new ship was not designed with the dream that man would someday take to the stars. It was designed as an ironical post-modern retro-futuristic reference to a cultural reference - a copy that no longer has an original. Welcome to the future

I gotta ask ... are you by any chance Thomas Doherty, the insightful critic CFQ had in the late 80s/early 90s? Those last couple lines are definitely Doherty-worthy.

 

[trevanian]

The Enterprise refit is a wonderful piece of sci-fi design/engineering.

The Nu-Enterprise is a prop, built at the wrong scale, for the sole purpose of mutilating an icon to represent one man's idiosyncratic take on a cultural force bigger than his imagination.

Quoted for truth.

Come on. Don't hold back. Tell us how much you really hate Abram's for taking Star Trek back to the masses again.

Abrams is just taking the GLADIATOR lesson to heart: win the mob, win the box office race. Lowest common denominator.

 

[Anticitizen]

I gotta ask ... are you by any chance Thomas Doherty, the insightful critic CFQ had in the late 80s/early 90s? Those last couple lines are definitely Doherty-worthy.

I can't make that claim. I'm just a guy whose ex-girlfriend's reading material consisted of Jean Baudrillard, Roland Barthe, and the like, which allowed me to skim the surface of postmodernism, literary criticism, and semiotics. *

I hope that's a compliment, though, and I'll look into Doherty

*being a huge William Gibson fan don't hurt, either.

 

[TheGodBen]

I think the JJprise looks fine in the movie, but when you look at still images of it from certain angles it looks bloated and out of proportion with itself. In contrast, I have a TMP E-refit model in front of me and as I moved it around and looked at it from different angles there wasn't a single way of looking at it which made me think it was ugly. In my opinion the E-refit is a beautiful work of art and my favourite design in all of Star Trek.

 

[Shazam!]

It looks like it was built for speed.

Why do all ships have to look 'sleek' and 'fast'? Why should that matter in space?

I can't say I'm a fan of the new ship. The TMP refit looked like a space-ship to me, awesome from every angle. I've yet to see a flattering angle of the new design; y'know, one that doesn't make the deflector stick out too far or make the nacelles look bent.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

The Enterprise is a beauty; it's more practically scaled, it looks more modern and its lines and curves are aesthetically more pleasing compared to the old TMP Enterprise, with it's clunky nacelles & neck and unrealistic shapes.

I vote the Enterprise.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Come on. Don't hold back. Tell us how much you really hate Abram's for taking Star Trek back to the masses again.

Why? It would be a lie.

Besides, I thought I made my feelings on the matter quite clear.

Great, it's Final Fantasy 7 all over again. It made FF Mainstream and more popular so clearly it means the series now sucks.

NuTrek made Trek mainstream again so clearly it sucks , it's not like there are people in the production who want some prestige or respect...

Why do people always equate popularity with quality?

People don't hate Final Fantasy 7 because it made the franchise popular, people hate it because they're tired of it being hailed as "The Best Video Game Ever!" when, you know, it isn't. It was popular because Square advertised the shit out of it. (Still the biggest VG ad campaign ever.) and people bought into it.

Of course, it only brought on a slew of corporate problems. Over the next decade the company was mired in pushed deadlines, a revolving door of directors and producers, and ultimately more failed projects than successful ones. The result was a series of games that progressively diminished in quality. But they sure were popular!

All the while they still had to milk FF7 for every last penny with one spin-off movie and three (or is it four?) games.

And now they are desperately trying to capture lightning in a bottle a second time (No pun intended.) with a game that's pretty much just a FF7 rehash--A game that's been five years in the making, delayed and pushed back countless times, and was practically completely rebuilt from scratch once. And this time they aren't even trying to hide their notoriety as they are going to launch the spin-offs all at about the same time.

One can only hope a similar disaster doesn't strike Paramount. Perhaps your analogy was somewhat prophetic?

 

[Shazam!]

more pleasing compared to the old TMP Enterprise, with it's... unrealistic shapes.

Explain.

 

[Shazam!]

I think the JJprise looks fine in the movie, but when you look at still images of it from certain angles it looks bloated and out of proportion with itself. In contrast, I have a TMP E-refit model in front of me and as I moved it around and looked at it from different angles there wasn't a single way of looking at it which made me think it was ugly. In my opinion the E-refit is a beautiful work of art and my favourite design in all of Star Trek.

^ That

 

[Anwar]

Come on. Don't hold back. Tell us how much you really hate Abram's for taking Star Trek back to the masses again.

Why? It would be a lie.

Besides, I thought I made my feelings on the matter quite clear.

Great, it's Final Fantasy 7 all over again. It made FF Mainstream and more popular so clearly it means the series now sucks.

NuTrek made Trek mainstream again so clearly it sucks , it's not like there are people in the production who want some prestige or respect...

Why do people always equate popularity with quality?

People don't hate Final Fantasy 7 because it made the franchise popular, people hate it because they're tired of it being hailed as "The Best Video Game Ever!" when, you know, it isn't. It was popular because Square advertised the shit out of it. (Still the biggest VG ad campaign ever.) and people bought into it.

Of course, it only brought on a slew of corporate problems. Over the next decade the company was mired in pushed deadlines, a revolving door of directors and producers, and ultimately more failed projects than successful ones. The result was a series of games that progressively diminished in quality. But they sure were popular!

All the while they still had to milk FF7 for every last penny with one spin-off movie and three (or is it four?) games.

And now they are desperately trying to capture lightning in a bottle a second time (No pun intended.) with a game that's pretty much just a FF7 rehash--A game that's been five years in the making, delayed and pushed back countless times, and was practically completely rebuilt from scratch once. And this time they aren't even trying to hide their notoriety as they are going to launch the spin-offs all at about the same time.

One can only hope a similar disaster doesn't strike Paramount. Perhaps your analogy was somewhat prophetic?

Oh, I agree. I always liked FF4 and FF6 more then FF7. I'll be buying FF13 just for the sake of it being a decent game. With Trek they've made it popular and respected in the Mainstream again while actually being a GOOD MOVIE, and I can only hope it stays that way for a while longer. But now we're already getting complaints of how it's no good and all the like and I assume it's because it's been well-received.