TMP Enterprise - Power distribution and usage

[DanGovier]

So, I'm currently trying to sketch out the internal power grid for the Refit Enterprise. Here's my understanding of it so far...

The primary power source is the intermix shaft, which is basically a large matter/antimatter collider. The reaction is controlled by the dilithium crystals, which also condition the energy output into highly energized electro-plasma.

Plasma conduits carry the bulk of the electro-plasma to the warp nacelles, with the rest being distributed around the ship via the EPS conduit network to power all the various ship components etc.

The Impulse Reactor(s) generate the same electro-plasma via fusion, but seemingly without needing dilithium crystals? And both the Impulse and Intermix generated plasma are (or can be) fed into each other if needed.

I'm assuming everything else on the ship is purely electrical, aside from the phasers which can also take the plasma feed directly from the intermix for additional power?

If any of you guys could point me in the direction of some good reading material that would be awesome

 

[Timo]

I guess there's a pretty sharp divide between what ideas the designers of the first Trek movie ship had and what conventions on starship technology have been established since. And the divide would be the sharper, the more one relies on text sources, which represent snapshots of treknological thinking whilst treknology itself is an evolving and incomplete nonstop movie.

Is the intermix shaft the primary source of power for the NCC-1701-nil refit? Does an "intermix shaft" even exist? Or do we only see a plasma conduit delivering power from some underfloor assembly that closely resembles either the TOS main reactor (a piece of tech we have so far failed to identify!) or the TNG collider chamber? After all, there's no dialogue on what that vertical shaft does, but it is visually identical to things identified as "plasma conduits" in the TNG context.

What is the power generating principle? Spinoff shows bracketing the movie from both sides talk very explicitly about letting deuterium and antideuterium collide in the presence of dilithium, with the result of energizing some plasma. When this reaches the warp coils, it's called "warp plasma" and has quite a few exotic properties, which supposedly are crucial in letting it properly excite the warp coils into generating a subspace field. But when it goes to other applications, is it "ordinary" plasma there?

Are there primary, secondary and tertiary loops of plasma power transfer, perhaps? Or is everything from the main and auxiliary reactors pumped directly into the same pipes, which just branch off to various applications? Dialogue would suggest the former, possibly with little or no transfer of plasma from one loop level to another, just transfer of power. And since no distribution system other than the EPS is mentioned, perhaps plasma is the means of conducting power to the humblest applications such as cabin lights or sonic showers.

But what sort of power is being transmitted? Electric current? Pressure waves? Something subspacey-duonetic-tri-isostatic? We don't know. They don't tell.

Impulse reactors can power up most of a starship's systems, but we lack definite proof that they could power up the warp engines. OTOH, main power from the warp core seems applicable to everything. The implication seems to be a uniform power net where warp engines just happen to have power needs greater than the combined output of impulse power sources. Yet batteries (including hand phaser batteries) can also feed power, to applications as diverse as phasers, transporters and shuttlecraft liftoff engines. Does every phaser and tricorder have an internal EPS? Or is power being conducted by other media, or indeed in other forms, at these application levels - but can be fed back to the higher levels in a form digestible by the big systems?

Personally, I'd like to believe in a futuristic setup where everything indeed works by EPS, and "electric wiring" is basically unheard of. Furthermore, the nature of power being transmitted by EPS could be something other than electric current. The ultimate storage medium would be antimatter (not necessarily antideuterium in the movie yet, but that has its advantages, since deuterium is a viable fusion fuel for the secondary reactors, and Starfleet appears to prefer deuterium-deuterium fusion to other fusion formulae in the bracketing spinoff shows). The means of release would be annihilation regulated by dilithium - but possibly in a belowdecks chamber looking much like the TNG one (and glimpsed on the NCC-1701-A in ST6:TUC). That's just a personal preference driven by the continuity needs from the bracketing bits of Trek, though.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Timo]

...That said, there's a classic fan work that may cover some of the ground here. Todd Guenther's Ships of the Star Fleet ("Volume One, 2290-91", in reality published in 1991 by Mastercom Data Center) lists ships from the TOS and TOS movie era, including canon ships, the study models and sketches that led to those ships, and a tiny handful of creations of the writer himself (or his friends). Among these is the Belknap class strike cruiser, purportedly very similar to the ship of The Motion Picture in engineering solutions, and Guenther provides schematics specifying not just the general interior layout, but computing, navigation, weapon, life support and propulsion systems, with plasma conduits (labeled "power loops"), reactors (labeled "propulsion shafts"), antimatter containment bottles and batteries for phasers, photon torpedoes and warp engines.

That's probably as close as one gets to a written source on the power technologies of the first movie, some random phrases in "making of" books notwithstanding. Guenther doesn't go into specifics, but his foldouts contain lots of intriguing terminology that we may interpret as we wish...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DanGovier]

That's great Timo, thanks. I'll watch TUC again this evening, can't quite picture the scene you mean.

I was wondering if the Refit Enterprise was using Deuterium specifically, because I thought that was more for TNG ships. Although from the reading I've been doing, I believe the conclusion was that Deuterium has a higher mass than other materials, so you get more fuel to the gallon so to speak. It makes sense that it would be the federation material of choice, and heavy water is easy to come by.

I was also wondering about the 'batteries', which many blueprints seem to include in abundance. I had initially envisioned the energetic plasma being converted to standard DC electricity for storage purposes, but could this plasma be compressed and stored for later use? I know we see barrels of warp plasma in the shows quite a few times, but they don't strike me as being batteries. Also, I imagine a small tricorder sized battery of compressed plasma going pop unexpectedly would really put those Samsung batteries catching fire into perspective

One potential design theory is that the Impulse and Deuterium reactors are joined by a single vertical heavy duty plasma conduit, as seen in the TMP engine room. Either can feed power into the EPS network to a lesser or greater extent, and the Dilithium in the engine room conditions the plasma stream into warp plasma before it heads off to the nacelles. It also explains how everything continues to operate under saucer separation conditions. Giant matter/antimatter reactor in the engineering hull to meet nacelle requirements, and a much smaller fusion reactor in the saucer to power the impulse engines and general ship systems.

 

[Ithekro]

Remember that deuterium us just a stable hydrogen isotope. It has only about twice as much mass than regular hydrogen as it has an added neutron and is used against anti-deuterium, which is probably the simplest form of antimatter that exists as a full atom.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

So, I'm currently trying to sketch out the internal power grid for the Refit Enterprise. Here's my understanding of it so far...

The primary power source is the intermix shaft, which is basically a large matter/antimatter collider. The reaction is controlled by the dilithium crystals, which also condition the energy output into highly energized electro-plasma.

Plasma conduits carry the bulk of the electro-plasma to the warp nacelles, with the rest being distributed around the ship via the EPS conduit network to power all the various ship components etc.

Mostly right up to this point. The plasma conduit also leads upwards to the impulse deck, as the same intermix reactor that feeds the warp nacelles also feeds the impulse engines. Power is distributed from the impulse deck to the rest of the ship from there.

Some sources suggest that an auxiliary fusion reactor is located near the impulse engines that can kick in if the power conduit is damaged or if the main reactor goes down. Other sources put auxiliary generator down near the bottom of the shaft.

The Impulse Reactor(s) generate the same electro-plasma via fusion, but seemingly without needing dilithium crystals?

Basically. Except the TMP designs don't really make it clear that dilithium is needed to generate electroplasma, or even the term "electroplasma" for that matter. It's basically implied that dilithium is used to convert plasma into useable energy. That plasma can come from pretty much anywhere, but dilithium is what turns it into electricity. Warp nacelles don't seem to need dilithium since they have other materials that convert the plasma into gravitons/warp particles/explodium/whatever.

And both the Impulse and Intermix generated plasma are (or can be) fed into each other if needed.

It's not clear that plasma is normally generated by the impulse engines at all; Probert implied that the impulse engines are consumers of that plasma feed, not producers. But "auxiliary power" has to come from SOMETHING, and the impulse deck is as good a place as any to put a fusion reactor.

I'm assuming everything else on the ship is purely electrical, aside from the phasers which can also take the plasma feed directly from the intermix for additional power?

Doubtful. I think the phasers are electrical too, but aren't powered by pre-charged capacitors like in previous designs. Firing phasers at high output would drain the capacitors faster, so feeding them from a high-voltage line directly would sort of eliminate that problem. In the TMP novelization it's stated that Kirk had originally rejected this design proposal for exactly the reason that the phasers would become useless if something was wrong with the warp engines (he was apparently remembering "Elaan of Troyus" and many other cases where the engines were kaput and they still had to try and defend themselves) and having learned that the engineers went and did it anyway, is royally pissed.

If any of you guys could point me in the direction of some good reading material that would be awesome

Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise would be the go-to in this case.

 

[David cgc]

It's not a tech manual or anything like that, but Christopher L. Bennett's novels Ex Machina and Forgotten History are both set in whole or in part on the TMP-era Enterprise and include a lot of little technical asides and details about how things are put together on the ship.

My favorite: the actual channel the plasma in the intermix chamber travels through is about the width of a finger, and most of the intermix tube is solid; it takes about eighteen inches of heavy-duty space-shielding to reduce the blinding, blistering plasma stream down to a gentle, soothing multicolored glow.

 

[Timo]

Remember that deuterium us just a stable hydrogen isotope. It has only about twice as much mass than regular hydrogen as it has an added neutron and is used against anti-deuterium, which is probably the simplest form of antimatter that exists as a full atom.

Technically, deuterium and tritium are "neutronic fuel" in the sense that they become fuel thanks to having extra neutrons in their nuclei. So, if ST2 goes for the generic term "neutronic fuel carrier" instead of saying outright "deuterium carrier" when describing the Kobayashi Maru, then we might deduce Starfleet/UFP uses several sorts of neutronic fuels and not just deuterium...

However, the use of deuterium as starship primary fuel in the TNG era is explicit from a number of VOY episodes. Deuterium is used in the same role in a number of ENT episodes, too. Would there be a brief lapse into other fuel types in the late 23rd century? Probably not, as TNG "Relics" shows the Jenolan from this era using deuterium. (Whether deuterium is for annihilation or fusion is not always specified, but it's fine for both, really, given the fantastic technologies available even in the Trek 22nd century.)

Mostly right up to this point. The plasma conduit also leads upwards to the impulse deck, as the same intermix reactor that feeds the warp nacelles also feeds the impulse engines. Power is distributed from the impulse deck to the rest of the ship from there.

Perhaps, perhaps not - the actual shapes and sizes of the sets make it very difficult to believe in a conduit going up all the way to the impulse engines, and there's no plot or dialogue requirement for it to do so. All we have on this issue is Andrew Probert's original design sketches (outdated by the actual setbuilding) and tons of fan material deriving from that (including the aforementioned Belknap design).

My favorite: the actual channel the plasma in the intermix chamber travels through is about the width of a finger, and most of the intermix tube is solid; it takes about eighteen inches of heavy-duty space-shielding to reduce the blinding, blistering plasma stream down to a gentle, soothing multicolored glow.

...And then this shielding can be opened up to allow a partition wall to slide down and cut the conduit. And then the plasma flow can be started again, supposedly burning a neat hole in said partition.

I'd sort of prefer to believe in some sort of forcefield-based shielding where solid matter plays a minimal role, as I don't want to put too much trust on the solid matter of that firewall, or the incomplete seams formed there...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Idran]

Technically, deuterium and tritium are "neutronic fuel" in the sense that they become fuel thanks to having extra neutrons in their nuclei.

How can you use the term "technically" for a made up term with no actual technical definition?

(I like the explanation, it's just a weird choice of phrasing.)

 

[Timo]

Hookay, "treknically", then.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DanGovier]

I've started my book collection

I've also just ordered a copy of the TNG Technical Manual for the 1701-D. It's got loads of awesome information in it, which I imagine is still relevant even for a ship as old as the constitution.

I'm working on a (very) rough 3D model of the internal power generation systems at the moment. I'll post it later for some debate :P

 

[uniderth]

You're off to a good start there. And even if you accept the-series-that-shall-not-be-named, I don't think it would be safe to assume that the technology would remain stagnant for over 100 years. So being "bookended" by similar principles doesn't mean that the technology is the same all the time.

In Kirk's era we have indications that the anti/matter reaction takes place in the nacelles. Thus the huge glowy reactor domes at the front of each nacelle (Damn it Jim, they're reactors, not Bussards). I am a fan of the theory that this reactions was moved into the ship from TMP onward.(note the lack of glowy domes on Refit's nacelles #notbussards) This would explain the radiation suits in the first movies. The crew is a lot closer to the reaction and so they need some extra protection.

As far as what that glowy shaft might be I have no idea. But I'm also a fan of the theory that it may have been in the saucer (see the U.S.S. reliant for example). Though this theory is not without it's flaws.

 

[DanGovier]

Ok, sooo... hastily sketchup'ed:

I do like the concept of the Matter/Antimatter reactor being belowdecks somewhere, but the Dilithium Crystal room that Spock so valiantly sacrifices himself in is located nowhere near where the reaction would take place. Unless it's immediately underneath, but then there are on screen shots looking vertically down the shaft and it goes down several decks uninterrupted. Plus, in Scotty's Guide it's labelled specifically as the "Dilithium Reactor Room". Do you think it's plausible that the reactor is under the floor there, directly below the glowy thing that irradiates Mr Spock?

I've very specifically made the horizontal conduit in Engineering 145 feet long, because that's what it says in Mr Scott's Guide:

"The horizontal intermix shaft extends one hundred and forty five feet aftward, at which point it branches out and upward toward the nacelle pylons."

This quote, coupled with Probert's diagram and looking at the paint job on the dorsal (it's painted a different colour right where the vertical shaft would be, perhaps denoting an extra strong hull area), really makes me want to stick to the vertical configuration if I can make it work.

Ultimately I like "Intermix" referring to the fact it's mixing Fusion and Antimatter reactor outputs into a single electro-plasma stream, as opposed to being a reactor or "warp core" itself.

Also, I like having a single large fusion reactor directly under the glowing blue dome or "Impulse Deflection Crystal". I'm keen to marry all ship systems with external hull features where at all possible.

 

[Timo]

I'd argue the dilithium room pedestal thingie is the same as in TOS: a dumbwaiter system for delivering the dilithium (in its fancy articulation frame) into the well-armored, fiercely radiating depths of the actual reactor from a safe distance. In TOS, it was farther out, in a shirtsleeves environment, but still protected by a massive floor-mounted radlock. In the movie ship, it was originally in one of those spaces, too, but the training ship role saw a branch line being refitted into the coveralls-only area for the trainees to play with.

The dumbwaiter model has the same sort of inherent flexibility as the turbolift network: nothing need be directly above or below anything else, and indeed is likely to be relatively distant or else there'd just be a simple shaft, ladder, whatnot...

There's plenty of room for all sorts of reactor setups and bulky deflector machinery and so forth at the forward end of the mid-secondary hull - we never see the front end of the vast cargo hold, and can't exactly tell how far it is. The specs are up to personal preference. But here's a list of pros and cons I use for relocating the engineering set a bit farther aft than Probert originally intended:

+ The forward matted-in, forced-perspective corridor adjoining the set can then fit inside the ship (assuming the forced perspective isn't accepted)
+ The vertical shaft is now located directly above the big round yellow thing at the bottom of the secondary hull, a promising location for antimatter loading and ejection hatch (the yellow markings are there in the TOS ship and the E-A, even if not in the ST:TMP version)
+ The aft end of the horizontal shaft branches off right where the pylons are, without requiring the forced perspective (which is betrayed in a couple of scenes anyway and thus becomes just "curiously tapering hardware")
+ The upper vertical shaft now doesn't interfere with the torpedo deck (and might instead interact with the aft parts of that deck where the torpedoes supposedly receive their antimatter load)

- We have to ignore the forced perspectives of the corridor and the aft horizontal shaft (but that's fine because they don't work perfectly anyway)
- The lower vertical shaft goes through that area with large blue-it windows now (but that's actually good because blue glow is associated with the shaft anyway, and it would be a bit silly to associate it with a "botanical garden" where blue glow or big windows would mean cruelty to plants, not to mention inconsistency with all known interiors of starship botanical gardens)
- The greenish vertical stripe on the neck is no longer associated with the vertical shaft (but could now plausibly become the turboshaft/ship's ladder)

It might be possible to fit a big deuterium tank in the neck, possibly behind the green area, but the sets show no evidence of piping for delivering deuterium down to a TNG-style reactor, removing one incentive for perfectly aping the TNG setup.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[uniderth]

Here's a thread with a lot of great information about this subject:

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tos-enterprise-wip.119751/page-12