TMP-DE fully restored in 4K…it’s about time!

[Ssosmcin]

I know Bob Wise insisted the Ilia "I can stop his pin" bit go back in, but it's really just another WTF detail for Ilia that's never commented upon. So, she has a never explained Oath of Celibacy and a random pain suppression power. Not only that, in this major crisis situation, everyone stops what they're doing to watch Ilia help Chekov. It was considerate of V'Ger to pause and let this play out...

 

[ananta]

I agree, the “oath of celibacy” line never gets any explanation and is extremely awkward. They should probably have cut the line entirely. It makes it seem as if Ilia has some kind of problem; as though she’s a pathological nymphomaniac who can’t get through a work shift without throwing herself at any colleagues in sight.

 

[Pauln6]

I agree, the “oath of celibacy” line never gets any explanation and is extremely awkward. They should probably have cut the line entirely. It makes it seem as if Ilia has some kind of problem; as though she’s a pathological nymphomaniac who can’t get through a work shift without throwing herself at any colleagues in sight.

She is.

Uhura implies heavily that there is something odd about Deltans. I do agree that a line from McCoy in the officer's lounge about Deltan pheromones could have added some context.

 

[Supervisor 194]

The oath of celibacy line as portrayed in the director's edition was taken as a jab at Kirk's reputation as a ladies' man by some of the audience in a viewing I attended.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Uhura implies heavily that there is something odd about Deltans.

Which is borne out by the way Chekov and Sulu react. They've presumably never met Ilia before, yet she's not even out of the turbolift and right away they start grinning and blushing like lovestruck teenagers. So it seems clear that Deltans do have pheremones of some kind...

 

[McCoy's Disco Collar]

Chekov has some really odd moments in this film, from that shot to his drama queen moment when he gets burned, gets ups theatrically and SCREAMS his lungs out (most over the top reaction to an exploding console in Trek history?)… to my personal favourite: “tooorrpedos ……aaaaaaaaaAARRRrrrrrrmmmmmmmeeeed!”

Or my favorite Chekov moment, when the alien light probe is splashing around the bridge and Decker says "Don't interfere with it!"

 

[Ssosmcin]

Which is borne out by the way Chekov and Sulu react. They've presumably never met Ilia before, yet she's not even out of the turbolift and right away they start grinning and blushing like lovestruck teenagers. So it seems clear that Deltans do have pheromones of some kind...

Actually, what seems clear is that they both find her attractive. For all we know based on the evidence in the film, she's special because she's bald. They could have dropped the Oath and lost nothing other than some random line.

 

[Campe]

To be fair, they could have dropped the looks as well.

 

[Ssosmcin]

To be fair, they could have dropped the looks as well.

Yep, I agree. If you're gonna cut out the explanations behind the Oath, lose all references to it. It doesn't matter at all. Her prior relationship with Decker was the key point.

 

[Pauln6]

Yep, I agree. If you're gonna cut out the explanations behind the Oath, lose all references to it. It doesn't matter at all. Her prior relationship with Decker was the key point.

I prefer my aliens to be more alien so I like the extra stuff. It adds another layer as to why they can only be together as part of V'Ger. Rather than less dialogue I think there should have been a couple more lines of explanation - mentioning the pheromone suppression medication required while on duty, or confirming Chekov had no side effects from physical contact. Admittedly, I read the stuff on Deltans in the TWoK novelisation before I saw TMP so maybe this gave me a broader perspective when I first saw the SLV on TV.

 

[Maurice]

IIRC there was more to the Deltan thing in the earlier TV movie script where Ilia have some telepathic connection moments with "Vejur", which they gave to Spock in the movie, so her being an alien was probably more germane at that point. But Bird envisioned her and by extension, Deltans, in problematic ways. Ilia's "oath of celibacy" is effectively a burqa she's required to wear to protect the poor human mens who can't control themselves and their space boners. The whole thing should have been dropped.

 

[Damian]

I don't have a problem with Ilia and Deltans as they were conceived. I've read a lot of novels that have dug in much deeper into Deltan sexuality and culture. However, I do agree a little more exposition in the movie would be helpful. I can see how casual fans or even fans that haven't read novels and the background information might be WTF was all that about.

But I always liked when Star Trek presented different aliens with much different cultures. The Deltan physiology, of course, released strong pheromones that could overwhelm human beings (not just men, but women as well). They also had a much freer sexualized culture much different than human culture. The reason why they had to take an oath of celibacy and not engage in sexual activity with humans (again, it wasn't just men, but could affect women as well) was because humans and some other species can be overwhelmed by the pheromones. It doesn't mean human men are weak and unable to control themselves. It was simple biology. I don't see anything wrong with that. But yes, that should have been explained a bit more in the movie. I think they wanted to inject a bit of humor there but it looked more ridiculous as it was then funny.

 

[McCoy's Disco Collar]

The problem is that literally nothing of what you just wrote about Deltans is actually established in the film.

 

[Kor]

Yes, as much as we may enjoy Trek literature, the novels are not 'cannnnnnnon.'

Kor

 

[Damian]

The problem is that literally nothing of what you just wrote about Deltans is actually established in the film.

Yes, as much as we may enjoy Trek literature, the novels are not 'cannnnnnnon.'

Kor

Yes I know. That was part of my point. I acknowledged that. From how I understand it at least some of that was originally supposed to be part of her backstory but was left out of the film.

I was trying to make a counterpoint to some that were saying that the whole oath of celibacy and Sulu/Chekov's response should have been cut altogether. I'd have preferred the reverse, that they went a little more in depth like they originally intended. It also would have fed into the Ilia-probe's reaction to Decker a bit better because there was an empathic connection that V'Ger had copied into the probe as well.

Had they just excised all that out she would have been little more than a bald human woman basically.

 

[Pauln6]

The problem is that literally nothing of what you just wrote about Deltans is actually established in the film.

That's not quite true. Some of it is established but not all of it is explained explicitly. I like the challenge of reading between the lines while others don't.

There were missed opportunities in TMP to be more explicit - Chapel could have confirmed that Ilia Probe was still emitting pheromones when examining her in sickbay for example.

That said, nobody explains onscreen that McCoy had parents but we don't try to argue that McCoy had no parents.

I have watched 3 episodes of Strange New Worlds so far and I have been very impressed at how they have fleshed out Uhura by reading between the lines of what we saw in TOS. It's a worthwhile hobby. ;-p

 

[McCoy's Disco Collar]

Your own personal headcanon is fine. I certainly have enough of my own.

But the stories only contain what they contain. Feel free to fill in any gaps with whatever you like, but that doesn't mean the creators intended any of that.

 

[Pauln6]

Your own personal headcanon is fine. I certainly have enough of my own.

But the stories only contain what they contain. Feel free to fill in any gaps with whatever you like, but that doesn't mean the creators intended any of that.

In the case of TMP, though, we do know quite a bit about what they intended for the characters, including that Will Decker is Matt Decker's son. It's not head canon as opposed to official background.

Of course, official background can be overruled by onscreen canon but then onscreen canon can be overruled by canon.

 

[Maurice]

Bird's 10/13/77 draft of the TV pilot has Ilia requiring human blood to survive, and that the ship’s existing medical supplies are sufficient. She was effectively a vampire at that stage. So using earlier drafts and BTS stuff to fill in gaps is a dicey proposition.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

I streamed the upgraded edition from Paramount + and marveled. It looks and sounds superb. And has certainly cemented my favor of this film being a cinematic masterpiece and the most important Star Trek film of all time. It really takes place inside a universe all to itself. It could be the first and final Star Trek movie, and proudly stand as such.

We were blessed to have the sequels, but they weren't necessary.