Sadly, I never liked Kirk in TMP. It doesn't work in the time span from TOS to 3 years later.
TMP and the “origin story”
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
In an odd way, it seemed DISCO and STRANGE... is fixing that; leaving whatever TOS was behind.
I’m okay with that. Makes it even easier to ignore all the stuff I don’t like post TMP.
TOS is just another variation of telling the story. Nothing more, and nothing less.
Hardly given that without TOS none of the other stuff would even exist. Given what followed it’s a decent bet we wouldn’t be discussing Lost In Space or Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea - The Next Generation.
Just because a story has a beginning doesn't mean you have to have some special allegiance to it. I think TOS season 1 is about as good as Trek ever gets. But that doesn't mean I don't equally enjoy movies 2-6 about as much. They tell a different story, but its clearly the same characters. Of all of that TMP is the outlier, but even it works as a period of time that falls in between both eras. Yes, Kirk went back to a desk job, even though he knew he shouldn't. He'd not be the first otherwise wise person to still make the same mistake twice.
Decommissioning the Enterprise made sense to me. We don't really know how much time had passed since the TMP Refit and this point. We do know Enterprise had the hell shot out of it in an engagement with a lesser ship. Yes there was a sneak attack, but it clearly was not up to the task of a heavy cruiser as well as it once had been. Khan's attack had pointed out exactly where to hit a refit-connie with one salvo, and there's no way of knowing if that news did not leak out. With better ships coming online and with its extensive damage, why NOT ditch the Enterprise instead of going through whatever refits the remaining connies were already undergoing or had been through?
1701-a was more of a political move to give give them the renamed-A and give them tasks suited to it. (and a continuance of removing every loss from TWOK and TSFS besides David Marcus).
Decommissioning the Enterprise made sense to me. We don't really know how much time had passed since the TMP Refit and this point. We do know Enterprise had the hell shot out of it in an engagement with a lesser ship. Yes there was a sneak attack, but it clearly was not up to the task of a heavy cruiser as well as it once had been. Khan's attack had pointed out exactly where to hit a refit-connie with one salvo, and there's no way of knowing if that news did not leak out. With better ships coming online and with its extensive damage, why NOT ditch the Enterprise instead of going through whatever refits the remaining connies were already undergoing or had been through?
1701-a was more of a political move to give give them the renamed-A and give them tasks suited to it. (and a continuance of removing every loss from TWOK and TSFS besides David Marcus).
Well, at the beginning, obviously. But, as it stands within continuity now it is a variation of the story being told. TMP another way for it to look, SNW still another.
Having variations doesn't take away from the original.
Yeah speaking of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, one can even say that that movie is even on it own separate timeline or in its own universe totally on its own. Yes TMP is a whole lot easier to fit into the TOS and TAS universe as opposed to TWOK-TUD, however even for many reasons it still doesn’t totally blend in seamlessly with both the TOS and the TAS. Almost like a stand alone film.
Thats not an out of left field notion. Indeed one can make the case that Trek is rebooted with each new version.
TOS
TAS
TMP
TWOK-TUC
TNG-DS9-VOY-GEN-FC-INS-NEM-ENT-PIC
Abramsversre
DSC-SNW
LD
Which is actually a good thing.
One could. I don't know why one would.
One could. I don't know why one would.
or it could just be a long running franchise and trying to find unbreakable infallible continuity even in a single season of a tv show is a pointless pursuit while trying to imagine each as a separate continuity is silly.
could be
Actually
TOS
TAS
TMP
TWOK-TUC
TNG-DS9-VOY-GEN-FC-INS-NEM-ENT
JJTREK
DSC-SNW
PIC
LD
Sorry, there's something about PICARD which doesn't fit with the series I love TNG.
I strike a middle ground. Yes, they are all connected as in the events of one happened in continuity. No they are exact tellings of those events but dramatic retellings, with all the variations that comes with that. Which is why TOS could potentially work with TMP if taken as TOS was a bit of a dramatic telling of Kirk's adventures but not an exact telling.
But, the other thing that occurs to me is that TOS to TMP or TNG to PIC doesn't account for intervening years. We don't see all the things that happen to the crew that would cause what would be pretty big changes in characters.
I have long had the view TAS was a stylized retelling of events in TOS’ live-action continuity. As such we saw things visually exaggerated and dramatized that would have looked somewhat different n TOS’ live-action reality.
To an extent TOS was a stylized retelling of events in a more realistic continuity (maybe TMP?). A reality wouldn’t have such obvious visually inconsistencies such as ships that are incomplete on one side or seeing the edge of consoles and decks and monitors that are actual display screens rather than pinned up static images.
To an extent TOS was a stylized retelling of events in a more realistic continuity (maybe TMP?). A reality wouldn’t have such obvious visually inconsistencies such as ships that are incomplete on one side or seeing the edge of consoles and decks and monitors that are actual display screens rather than pinned up static images.
It is interesting you mentioned that because lets say a ship was constructed to journey to Mars, the spacecraft would have what it needed for the operations to keep it going. So the engineers would not bullshit themselves by having holographic screens of flashy displays and boards, the functions would be more in the vain of TOS than anything Trek has ever done. Operations of a spacecraft would be aeronautic based than the glitziness from an Apple Store.
If the '09 movie presented one good idea for the structure of Starfleet, it was that a Captain might be training cadets on a ship to later be his crew on that ship. In that movie, Pike is training cadets on the then-new Enterprise who will actually be his crew on that Enterprise. I assume that this writing suggests the writers have the same impression that I got when first watching Star Trek II.
When I first saw that movie, my impression was that the Enterprise was not a "training ship," but was in fact going to go on duty at some point, with a mostly new crew that Spock was training. This is because McCoy asks if it would not be better to "put an experienced crew back on the ship." Probably many of the other officers are going on to other positions, especially since most are full commanders or above at that point. Would Saavik have been Captain or was she getting officer training to be Spock's first officer? I'm not sure.
Perhaps Kirk knows that this time, Starfleet will not let him take back command of the Enterprise, and his line about such missions being "for the young" was a way of mocking his superiors without really saying it. Sometimes a person in authority will say something that clues in the subordinates that the person does not like what has to be done, but they all have to do it anyway. If Starfleet has promotions that relate to age (or better-stated, years of experience, since Kirk was supposedly a young captain during TOS) perhaps Kirk would be seen as now having been in the service to many years to be a captain of a ship, and it overseeing this training because it is the mostly like what he wants to do that he can.
Lastly, assuming that for the movies the first two digits of the stardate relate to the year, TMP would be in '74 and The Wrath of Khan in '81. That is enough time for an entire 5-year mission with Kirk as an admiral serving as captain, after which he was compelled to return to administrative tasks.
To my mind, the time Kirk "left Starfleet" shown in Generations, is probably meant to the the time after the 5-year mission that followed TMP, but before Kirk becomes an Academy instructor for Star Trek II.
Taking all that into account I could see TOS, TMP and movies II-VI as being in the same universe, but as shown with Kirk, things would have to happen in between that change how the characters relate to their situations.
