Well then, I guess you fucking win.
TLJ Soundtrack, Which are the Hits?
- Thread starter JRoss
- Start date
Well then, I guess you fucking win.
Not even close. Several tracks on AOTC (Departing Coruscant, Jango's Escape, Bounty Hunter's Pursuit, Return to Tatooine, The Tusken Camp and Homestead) are heavily incidental (non-thematic) in nature. Those tracks do contain some thematic material. And the score is, without a doubt, a solid Williams production. But some of its best music (The Arena) isn't even utilized in the movie. Much of it is indistinguishable from generic Williams fare. And, furthermore, almost the entire final act of the film is scored with old music from The Phantom Menace.
By comparison, TLJ, even with less new thematic material, is far more coherent from start to finish. Both in the film and on the CD.
Whereas ALL the acts of TLJ in their entirety are scored with old music from Episodes IV-VII.
^ False. Not only is there new thematic material... Old themes are given new renditions and variations. They are all newly recorded specifically for TLJ ... unlike AOTC which used actual music recorded for and already used in TPM.
Do try to keep up.
Do try to keep up.
Nope.
That’s not what "new material" means.
Umm ... yes, there is new thematic material. I already posted this earlier in the thread. But since you've chosen to ignore it, I'll repost it here again:
http://www.filmmusicnotes.com/new-musical-themes-and-their-meaning-in-the-last-jedi/
And yes, "new material" also means "new recorded material" ... You know, new variations of themes recorded and tracked specifically for the TLJ and not recycled, reused material recorded for TPM but haphazardly tracked into another film as happened in AOTC.
It's clear that your posts are quite ignorant of what happened during AOTC, and the scoring process in general. To say nothing of the thematic gaffes present in AOTC (Yoda's theme during Padme in the Geonosis droid factory; the Droid March for the reveal of the Clone Army, etc.). But you've been given plenty of information for your posts to reflect more knowledge of reality and I do hope your posts do a better job of keeping up in the future.
Guys, I did not start this thread to dump on John Williams or to fuel arguments. I don't agree with @EnsignRicky on virtually anyting about TLJ, but I respect his opinion. If he doesn't hear a similarity, he doesn't hear it.
I've long been of the opinion that WIlliams drew a lot of inspiration for The Imperial March from the the theme of Swan Lake. Not everyone can hear that, and I don't insult their "credibility".
I've long been of the opinion that WIlliams drew a lot of inspiration for The Imperial March from the the theme of Swan Lake. Not everyone can hear that, and I don't insult their "credibility".
It would help if he actually listened to the comparison before deciding on whether or not he heard the similarity (he specifically stated he hadn't, and yet made a judgement anyway ... hence the loss of credibility). And, truly, it's irrefutable. This doesn't take anything away from John Williams, mind you. But it does put his extraordinary efforts for TLJ into proper context.
Like TFA, this is a film he was allowed to score, from start to finish, without having his efforts butchered, (eg. TPM) or completely stymied (e.g AOTC) by last minute editing.
That's why his efforts, for this film, far outstrip his efforts on, say, AOTC.
Like TFA, this is a film he was allowed to score, from start to finish, without having his efforts butchered, (eg. TPM) or completely stymied (e.g AOTC) by last minute editing.
That's why his efforts, for this film, far outstrip his efforts on, say, AOTC.
Avoid the Star Wars: The Last Jedi OST if you expect Williams to generate fresh new thematic ideas akin to those in The Force Awakens, the abysmal plotline for this film limiting his ability to develop compelling musical identities.
Williams managed to conduct portions of The Last Jedi himself but handed some of those duties to trusted collaborator William Ross.
In retrospect, The Force Awakens retains its reputation as a superbly crafted masterpiece, its new themes and trademark Williams complexity featuring prominently in the film's success. Muddier is the music's presence in The Last Jedi, the lack of romantically flowing new thematic material, haphazard pacing, and occasions when the music simply drops out (or, worse yet, is artificially dialed out using the worst of modern, cheap shock techniques) all conspiring against Williams. As usual since the prequel scores, his recordings are micro-edited to death for the final film, especially in battle sequences. In fact, matching the music on album to that heard on screen is often impossible given the plethora of such rearrangements and the occasionally extensive editing of short passages together to form longer album suites.
The most likely cause of Williams' potentially unmemorable approach to The Last Jedi for some listeners is the film's lack of overly compelling new storylines or characters. There was an opportunity for Luke Skywalker himself to receive a redemption theme built from his suffering in exile and maturing for his return to glory at the end of this film, and although Williams offers the character a theme for his exile and an outstanding motif for his return, the overall transformation of the character throughout the movie fails to yield a consistent musical connection. The plight of the dwindling resistance against the evil First Order could have used a prominent, thematic cry of desperation during its foolishly elongated plotline, but Williams once again underplays his hand here, only mingling the freedom fighters' existing melody with a few new ideas that never congeal enough to form a lasting new theme.
The Last Jedi fails to meet the standard set by Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back, which offered three extremely potent new melodies for its plot. One can blame Johnson for the circumstances in which Williams found himself, because the composer did try his best at reinforcing existing themes while exploring new ones in the minimal chances offered by the script. Thus, The Last Jedi doesn't raise the bar for the franchise as a whole. If anything, it plays like a placeholder soundtrack in the larger tapestry. Fortunately, Williams in placeholder mode is better than anything else in this era of film music, so there's still plenty to love about the soundtrack for The Last Jedi. Just don't expect it to overwhelm the masses like The Force Awakens.
Williams managed to conduct portions of The Last Jedi himself but handed some of those duties to trusted collaborator William Ross.
In retrospect, The Force Awakens retains its reputation as a superbly crafted masterpiece, its new themes and trademark Williams complexity featuring prominently in the film's success. Muddier is the music's presence in The Last Jedi, the lack of romantically flowing new thematic material, haphazard pacing, and occasions when the music simply drops out (or, worse yet, is artificially dialed out using the worst of modern, cheap shock techniques) all conspiring against Williams. As usual since the prequel scores, his recordings are micro-edited to death for the final film, especially in battle sequences. In fact, matching the music on album to that heard on screen is often impossible given the plethora of such rearrangements and the occasionally extensive editing of short passages together to form longer album suites.
The most likely cause of Williams' potentially unmemorable approach to The Last Jedi for some listeners is the film's lack of overly compelling new storylines or characters. There was an opportunity for Luke Skywalker himself to receive a redemption theme built from his suffering in exile and maturing for his return to glory at the end of this film, and although Williams offers the character a theme for his exile and an outstanding motif for his return, the overall transformation of the character throughout the movie fails to yield a consistent musical connection. The plight of the dwindling resistance against the evil First Order could have used a prominent, thematic cry of desperation during its foolishly elongated plotline, but Williams once again underplays his hand here, only mingling the freedom fighters' existing melody with a few new ideas that never congeal enough to form a lasting new theme.
The Last Jedi fails to meet the standard set by Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back, which offered three extremely potent new melodies for its plot. One can blame Johnson for the circumstances in which Williams found himself, because the composer did try his best at reinforcing existing themes while exploring new ones in the minimal chances offered by the script. Thus, The Last Jedi doesn't raise the bar for the franchise as a whole. If anything, it plays like a placeholder soundtrack in the larger tapestry. Fortunately, Williams in placeholder mode is better than anything else in this era of film music, so there's still plenty to love about the soundtrack for The Last Jedi. Just don't expect it to overwhelm the masses like The Force Awakens.
Gee ... contradiction much?
Also:
Per the link I've offered (twice now) there is an explicit thematic idea for this very concept. It doesn't gain prominence for very specific reasons, as noted in the link. Hardly the result of such a desperate assertion that "all" acts of TLJ "in their entirety" are scored with "old music."
Oh boy .... your posts haven't started keeping up yet.
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Gee ... contradiction much?
I have a feeling he didn't write that giant wall of text but merely lifted it from somewhere else.
Your posts really aren't paying any sort of attention, are they?Gee ... contradiction much?
It's quite possible to compose a single outstanding theme, and yet have the entirety of the score be less than coherent. Such is the case here between AOTC and TLJ. It's a nuanced position born out of actually understanding the process of composing films.
Why your posts choose to ignore this reality (and every other reality presented to them) is anyone's guess. But seriously, they are an embarrassment.
Oh boy .... your posts haven't started keeping up yet.
The fact that you have to resort to the same condescending and pejorative remarks in your posts speaks volumes louder than even John Williams’ repetitive and unmemorable soundtrack for The Last Jedi. But petty insults instead of real arguments is a given when you have to try to disguise your personal opinions as "reality".
Yeah, sorry... But the tracked music from TPM in the AOTC film is a reality. As are the numerous instances of incidental (non-thematic) music on the AOTC soundtrack. As well as how much of the music in the score isn't used in the film, plus the thematic inconsistencies that do exist. As is the reality that the score for TLJ not only contains new themes (in direct contradiction to one of your own posts) its material was composed and scored specifically (and almost entirely thematically) for that film ... These aren't opinions. They are facts.
So yes, your posts do have have a lot of catching up to do. They can start by acknowledging the differences between facts and opinions.
ETA:
Also, unlike your last post, I'm explicitly criticizing the posts, rather than the poster.
So yes, your posts do have have a lot of catching up to do. They can start by acknowledging the differences between facts and opinions.
ETA:
Also, unlike your last post, I'm explicitly criticizing the posts, rather than the poster.
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It’s OK. I guess we can have an adult conversation after all! Oh, wait...
Nope. I guess not. Oh well...
It's a shame that your posts still cannot acknowledge facts. That's pretty much a prerequisite for that adult conversation your posts seemingly desire.
No one can really blame a lackluster score on the film's director and writer. The composer takes cues from on-screen visuals. There was plenty of material to work with, regardless of whether or not your'e a TLJ hater.
I did not start this thread for people to talk down to one another. I just wanted to know what people though were the best tracks from this film. I'll go ahead and give "Rose's Theme" a listen.
Can we maybe have a mod close this down? I don't want it to turn into a place filled with nothing but TLJ haters hating on one another.
I did not start this thread for people to talk down to one another. I just wanted to know what people though were the best tracks from this film. I'll go ahead and give "Rose's Theme" a listen.
Can we maybe have a mod close this down? I don't want it to turn into a place filled with nothing but TLJ haters hating on one another.
Yep.
No, but let's stop the pissing contests. Averof, if you have actual, substantial content to contribute instead of just meaningless snipes (and, no, some wall of text you clearly C+P'd from somewhere else doesn't count), please do so, because otherwise infractions will start getting tossed around. Emperor's Prize is, at least, discussing the content of the actual score as recorded and presented in the film. You might want to do the same.