News TLJ Negative Buzz Amplified by Russian Trolls, Study Finds

[BillJ]

Plot-Twist; the Study has been written by a russion troll to further undermine the notion that people can simply disagree with each other.

People can simply disagree with each other, happens all the time. On the other hand, when someone goes to a movie and likes it then all of a sudden does a 180 after their favorite internet review site tears it to shreds to up their click count... it shows that they want to seem smart and in tune with the particular group of people they think highly of.

 

[fireproof78]

Definitely authoritarian but I don't think outright fascist, it was an interestingly different kind of perspective and system for military service to be genuinely voluntary and yet also required for suffrage, for any political power.

That's a good way of putting it. There seemed to be very little in the way of curtailing individual liberties, aside from suffrage, in the Terran Federation. The military itself, specifically the Mobile Infantry, is far more of a small slice of actual population. That's even a talking point in the book.

I have definitely struggled with it being called outright fascist, but you put it far better. I also didn't want to argue the point because I know passions on the subject can increase greatly.

 

[Christopher]

Like I said, I just found the reasoning in Starship Troopers to be a joke, because it was all predicated on how the system made everything work so much better, but it never actually offered any proof that anything did work better. It was just asserted by people who expected their listeners to swallow it without question. And the fact that the characters felt they had to try so hard to sell it just made me more skeptical of what they were selling.

 

[Starfury]

People can simply disagree with each other, happens all the time.

I don't know. My post was a bit tongue in cheek of course. Then again, I really feel that, lately, there's more and more a "but.." attached, a false sense of... superiority to whatever argument one supports. Like, if I disagree with you, you conclude that there's something wrong with me. Maybe because it's so much easier to end arguments that way (while feeling good about yourself). I see it on both sides of the spectrum all the time and it's childich and pretty unsettling. Nothing good will come out of it

it shows that they want to seem smart and in tune with the particular group of people they think highly of.

That's not restricted on just one group, though. :/

 

[Spot261]

Could be some of these folks saw favorite online sites bashing the film? People seem to follow their favorite prognosticators, regardless of it lines up with the original feelings on the subject.

Some folks are sheep, more than happy to be led to the slaughter.

I'm suspecting that's exactly what happened to be honest.

 

[BillJ]

That's not restricted on just one group, though. :/

I don't know? I don't see a lot of people that like movies particularly interested in going to internet war over them. The folks who dislike The Last Jedi are the ones driving the narrative.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I hate all kinds of movies, but I don’t devote myself to comvincing those who liked it are wrong. I don’t like Pepsi, but I’m not going to send death threats to their twitter account either. When your hatred of a movie is so strong, that you feel you must ruin it for others you’ve crossed a line. I can’t wrap my head around what drives a person to endlessly fantasize about sequels failing or producers being fired because YOU didn’t like a movie. I don’t respect their opinion because it isn’t an opinion, it’s a cult of hate at that point. If you don’t like it, good for you. Comment on it in a review and move on with your life, it’s too short to waste on something so petty.

 

[fireproof78]

Like I said, I just found the reasoning in Starship Troopers to be a joke, because it was all predicated on how the system made everything work so much better, but it never actually offered any proof that anything did work better. It was just asserted by people who expected their listeners to swallow it without question. And the fact that the characters felt they had to try so hard to sell it just made me more skeptical of what they were selling.

I approach it with more skepticism now but I had it tempered with my uncle's own experience who used snippets from the book from leadership training. He was better able to glean and explain than my teenage brain could figure at the time.

Now, I personally would have preferred more world building in terms of the Terran Federation, but I don't think that was really the point of the book. So, I worry less about the political system proposed and engage more with Juan Rico as he learns lessons regarding leadership, lessons I've had to learn as well.

Anyway, back on topic.

 

[Awesome Possum]

The fact that some of it came from alt-right trolls explains the anti-diversity element. It's coded language for white nationalism.

 

[LJones41]

New
The fact that some of it came from alt-right trolls explains the anti-diversity element. It's coded language for white nationalism.

Why are some people, along with the Disney suits, still trying to pretend that only the "alt-right element" disliked "The Last Jedi"? There are people out there who feel that Johnson's portrayal of diversity in the movie was a sham.

No. There were not "many people" who disliked TLJ; there were a tiny minority whose opinions and behavior were so OTT that their influence was easy to distort.

How do you know this? Did you literally count the number of people who liked or disliked the movie? Or whose behavior was "so OTT"?

 

[BillJ]

There are people out there who feel that Johnson's portrayal of diversity in the movie was a sham.

How so? He was given the pieces to work with from The Force Awakens, he wasn't starting from scratch.

 

[fireproof78]

There are people out there who feel that Johnson's portrayal of diversity in the movie was a sham.

Based upon what? Rose? How in the world is that a sham? This makes no sense.

 

[Relayer1]

If you don’t like it, good for you. Comment on it in a review and move on with your life, it’s too short to waste on something so petty.

There's an issue with that sentiment.

Hint - it has something to do with having a life...

 

[Awesome Possum]

Why are some people, along with the Disney suits, still trying to pretend that only the "alt-right element" disliked "The Last Jedi"? There are people out there who feel that Johnson's portrayal of diversity in the movie was a sham.

Yes, you keep claiming that but refuse to provide any evidence.

 

[Spot261]

Why are some people, along with the Disney suits, still trying to pretend that only the "alt-right element" disliked "The Last Jedi"? There are people out there who feel that Johnson's portrayal of diversity in the movie was a sham.

I've not encountered them...unless you're my first.

How do you know this? Did you literally count the number of people who liked or disliked the movie? Or whose behavior was "so OTT"?

Well, wasn't the fact this has been done the whole point of the thread?

 

[suarezguy]

There's an issue with that sentiment.

Hint - it has something to do with having a life...

Hmm, it does feel particularly funny now, given the amount of negativity, that Shatner and a lot of media generally in the '80s felt fans being too positive about a show was both crazy and annoying.

Not annoying enough to not go to and profit from conventions, of course, but annoying enough to complain about and mock.

 

[Christopher]

Hmm, it does feel particularly funny now, given the amount of negativity, that Shatner and a lot of media generally in the '80s felt fans being too positive about a show was both crazy and annoying.

I will never understand why people mistake the lines Shatner delivered in a Saturday Night Live comedy sketch for his own genuine personal opinon of fandom. I mean, okay, there are probably people out there who only know of it indirectly through the game of Internet telephone -- they heard that Shatner yelled "Get a life!" at some fans somewhere and don't know where it came from, so they mistake it for something that actually happened -- but somewhere along the line, toward the beginning of that game of telephone, there must've been some fans so stupid that they couldn't tell the difference between a scripted comedy sketch and a genuine statement of belief.

And the sketch wasn't about fans being "too positive" -- on the contrary, it was about them being too nitpicky, obsessing over trivial continuity discrepancies and plot details, and mistaking the fantasy of the show for reality, which are the same annoying things that fans still do today. (It was in the same vein as the Lucy Lawless "A wizard did it" scene in The Simpsons.) The overly literal-minded, humorless fans who mistook a bloomin' SNL sketch for real life and confused the actor with his character are the the same kind of people that the sketch was poking fun at in the first place.

 

[suarezguy]

The idea that fans, even those who nitpick about inconsistencies, mistake fantasy for reality seems a particularly strong and cruel barb.

Shatner later admitted it was both comedy and what he really believed and felt.

When William Shatner appeared on Saturday Night Live in 1986 and told Jon Lovitz and a convention hall full of absurdly nerdy Star Trek fans to “get a life,” it was all in good fun. After all, anyone who’s been to a Trek convention has seen one or two people who bear a resemblance to Dana Carvey’s Spock-grokker, but we all knew Bill was just teasing. Wasn’t he? “That now-infamous sketch,” Shatner reveals, “was for me, at that time, equal parts comedy and catharsis…. I bought into the Trekkie stereotypes. In a nutshell, I was a dope.”

http://starshiptim.com/older/shatner.html

 

[Christopher]

The idea that fans, even those who nitpick about inconsistencies, mistake fantasy for reality seems a particularly strong and cruel barb.

I don't think it was directed at all fans, just that extreme few who take it too far. Comedy is about focusing on exaggerated character types, after all.

And there are some fans who do have a problem with reality. When Gilligan's Island was on, the Coast Guard got telegrams demanding to know why they didn't rescue those poor people. Some soap opera actors have gotten death threats for the actions their characters performed.

 

[mos6507]

No. There were not "many people" who disliked TLJ; there were a tiny minority whose opinions and behavior were so OTT that their influence was easy to distort.

You can say it but you can't prove it.