Spoilers Titans - DC Universe Series

[kirk55555]

It is very easy to come up for a reason for Doves current behavior. As the demon Trigons power increases in our dimension (Raven using her powers empowers him) the lord of Order grows less able to influence his minions while the lord of Chaos is able to exert a stronger one. Dove having spent so much time with Hawk is easily susceptible to Chaos trying to take over. Dove unaware of the increased influence of Chaos on her psych, performs acts that her normal self would never do. This leaves Dove in the clear once the current situation is resolved. If they were the shows main characters you could easily go into the conflict she is experiencing as she becomes ever more violent due to Chaos influence.

Yeah, no. Nothing can make a Dove change. Freaking Black Lanterns can't effect either Dove. Nothing can effect Dove like that, period. Its bullshit made by people who either weren't aware of what the Titans were before they were hired to write that shit or don't give a shit about the material and just want more grim and gritty trash.

 

[Gavin70]

because in episode two...

Having just seen episode 2 I can see your point. I still think it could have been done with a little less gore, but I can cope with what's being done as long as it works for the story (which it does).

Although, as a male, there was one scene I had issues with that I'm still cringing over ....

 

[dahj]

Although, as a male, there was one scene I had issues with that I'm still cringing over ....

I think I can guess which one.

 

[dahj]

That said, based on comments (or lack of them) here and what I've read elsewhere, Dove is a legitimate reason to give this show a pass. I'll not rant furiously but Dove is literally supposed to be the pacifist counterpart to Hawk using less-lethal means.

I'm starting to think trailers should be banned, because people love to take things out of context and then wildly extrapolate, so Dove gets to be a "violent psychopath" when nothing she says or does even remotely resembles that. She's super caring, calm and nice on the show.

That shot from the trailer is when she's alone and has to swoop in and take out 5 thugs quickly as they're about to dismember a tied up Hawk. So yeah, she absolutely kicks their asses before they even realize what hit 'em.

As for how her usual fighting style differs from Hawk's I'd argue it does, you can see the fight for yourself here...

Spoiler

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

...I'd say it's clear while he mostly goes for straight up face punching, she does more evasion and flips.

It should be pointed out they're just regular street vigilantes here, they have no powers (yet?) so to expect her to not throw any punches and just do the Batgirl '67 ballet thing is a bit unrealistic.

You're of course more than welcome to think this is "not how it should be done", but it does work well within the context of the show. Also, the casting is real good, Minka Kelly is great as Dawn, she has a very serene vibe to her, and Alan Ritchson has that brash bravado thing going on, so they totally work as polar opposites even though they're not imbued by powers from the Lords of Chaos and Order.

 

[Thestral]

I do like Minka Kelly, true.

But the important thing is - does Dove kill? Throwing punches is one thing (though a more aikido type fighting would fit better), but outright killing is.... The reviews I found imply she does but I couldn't really tell from that clip.

(It's also odd, btw, that Hawk and Dove have become Hank Hall and Dawn Granger recently instead of Hank and Don Hall or Holly and Dawn Granger, but I guess the stereotype of the violent dude and the serene girl is too appealing.)

 

[dahj]

But the important thing is - does Dove kill?

No she doesn't, nor do Hawk or Robin for that matter.

(Nor has there been anything on the show so far to suggest Batman does)

 

[Christopher]

(It's also odd, btw, that Hawk and Dove have become Hank Hall and Dawn Granger recently instead of Hank and Don Hall or Holly and Dawn Granger, but I guess the stereotype of the violent dude and the serene girl is too appealing.)

What do you mean, "recently?" The Hank/Dawn team-up was introduced in 1988 and lasted until Hank was killed off in 1991. Holly Granger wasn't created until 2003.

 

[kirk55555]

No she doesn't, nor do Hawk or Robin for that matter.

(Nor has there been anything on the show so far to suggest Batman does)

She may not kill, but she sure as hell mains a dude. I guess ripping someone's face open scaring him for life (and probably destroying at least one eye) might be more "peaceful" then Hawk, since I'm sure in Titans he's probably ripping off limbs and skullf^&*%$#g thugs left and right.

Dove doesn't have claws, she wouldn't maim someone even to save Hawk, and in a show where a metahuman of African decent called Starfire gleefully murders people in cold blood while Robin shoots more people then frank castle (maybe he doesn't kill, but I'm starting to think some BS is getting spread by Titans fans and either way Robin wouldn't fire a gun, much less shoot it at people even to wound) this defense is pathetic.

I really wonder what is wrong with some people. I mean, I like a good violent action movie/show too, but there are characters specifically made to be violent, grim and gritty. Making Titans into DC's Punisher has brought out defenders who are somehow more stubborn and BS spouting then even the rabid Snyder fanatics.

Edit: A article I just read said that the show actually did kill someone, specifically the Punisher analog they call Dove. Now, the actress is slated for more episodes so its probably a fake out, but that is kind of hilarious to me. Hell, if they kill fake Starfire and killer robin off, they might be able to elevate the show from an offensive pile of shit to bland garbage.

 

[dahj]

She...

 

[Guy Gardener]

Are Hank Hall and Carter Hall related?

These two antiheroes, Hawk and Dove, do not seem to be empowered avatars of peace and war, or chaos and order? I may be imagining a Lords of Chaos and Order/Doctor Fate connection?

Regardless, Hawk leads us into Armageddon 2001, which may be amazing.

 

[Reverend]

Just got around to watching the first episode and...holy misled expectations Batman! That actually wasn't bad at all.
Well, OK, it was a little bad in places but it was *miles* better than the trailers made it look.

I like Raven, her depiction seems pretty spot on and is going in an interesting direction. I surprisingly liked Grayson as well. A little over the top on the angst, but I can forgive it for a first episode as there's clearly some potential there.

Still not 100% on board for this version of Starfire, but they at least have a reason for her to be in that getup in the short term and they appear to be going somewhere specific with her character too, so i'm willing to see how it plays out. No comment of Beast Boys since, well, not much to comment on at this point.

 

[dahj]

So... episode 3.

Spoilers, obviously.

While the overall plot didn't move by much, the villains got even more creepily weirder, and we got some hints on the backgrounds of both Raven and Starfire, but in return we got lots of scenes of our main characters meeting and sizing each other up, and I'm really loving the cast and their chemistry. Loved everything with Kory, and how both her and Dick are instantly protective of Rachel and I liked the talk between Dick and Rachel in the church and how the flashbacks to his early days at Wayne Manor tied into it.

I was wondering what Dick's status with Detroit PD was since he went on the road trip, and they mentioned he's on leave this episode, though with the death of Amy I'm beginning to suspect that we won't be seeing much more of him as a proper cop(this season at least), though he did his fair share of detecting through gadgetry trying to track down the kidnappers and Kory.

Also, we finally got all four of them in a scene together, albeit very briefly.

And while we've seen very little of Gar so far, next week...

 

[Reverend]

I get the feeling this show was written with binging in mind and the decision to make it a weekly release instead of dropping it all at once was made much later. As a result, it's hard to really comment on a specific episode beyond: "OK, I like where this is going."

 

[dahj]

I get the feeling this show was written with binging in mind and the decision to make it a weekly release instead of dropping it all at once was made much later.

I dunno about that, DCU seems to be planned to have one brand new episode a week throughout the year to make the yearlong subscription more enticing so I figure they knew that going in.

As for the serialization it seems like a natural choice, not just because it's almost the default in TV shows these days, but also because the entire season is supposed to be the origin story of the team.

 

[Reverend]

I dunno about that, DCU seems to be planned to have one brand new episode a week throughout the year to make the yearlong subscription more enticing so I figure they knew that going in.

I suppose it depends whether that decision was made before or after the show was commissioned. Difficult to say for sure either way.

As for the serialization it seems like a natural choice, not just because it's almost the default in TV shows these days, but also because the entire season is supposed to be the origin story of the team.

I don't necessarily disagree, but for me it's less about the serialised nature of the story and more about how it's presented.
Generally speaking, I think a weekly serialised show would tend more towards each episode still feeling like a complete chapter of the story in it's own right, not just 40 mins cut out from a giant 8 or 10 hour movie.
Shows that are designed for binge watching on the other hand seem to usually be structured in such a way that it ends on a hard cliffhanger, that gets resolved reasonably quickly in the next episode ('Stranger Things' being a prime example of the latter.)
And by "hard cliffhanger" I mean the kind that makes you want to watch the next episode *right fucking now!*, as opposed to the softer "oh, I can't wait so see how they resolve this next week" cliffhangers a weekly show tends to have.

Of course there's plenty of examples of shows that do either of these things poorly ('Black Lightning' for example leave me struggling to distinguish one episode from the next, not leaving on a particularly memorable cliffhanger and often leaves me struggling to remember what happened last week.)
So I suppose it's entirely possible the binge-worthy vibe I'm getting from Titans is mostly by accident.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Of course, once an entire season has dropped, it will remain forever bingable for new subscribers. Believe me, I've already given serious thought to waiting for Star Trek: Discovery's entire second season to drop before subscribing for a single month.

 

[Noname Given]

Well, caught the first 3 episodes. I find it interesting; and while I didn't care for the initial intro of Starfire, and was wondering just how/where they were going to take the character here; the interpretation has grown on me, and I like the actress.

Robin seems a bit overly bloodthirsty at this point; but as it appears his storyline is he feels he IS becoming to much like Batman (and Batman must be a really 'Dark' Knight in whatever multiverse fragment of the Berlantiverse this show resides in) - it too is an interesting character choice. That said, I'm surprised he stuck with the 'Robin' aspect; and they didn't just have him become 'Nightwing' within the first few episodes (As it was stated, no one's sighted 'Robin' in over 1 year prior to him popping up in Detroit).

Raven - Wow (and I realize they can't have a minor in the role) - but, she's 13 years old in this incarnation? I know she was supposed to be young in the original Teen Titans, but wow! That said, I think the actress has done well with what she's been given and I ultimately like the character.

Beast Boy - Wow, they really are working hard just to shoehorn him into this atm. The only scenes we have are him stealing a video game; and somehow running into Raven playing pinball at an arcade.

Still its piqued my interest enough to stick with it for now.

 

[Christopher]

That said, I'm surprised he stuck with the 'Robin' aspect; and they didn't just have him become 'Nightwing' within the first few episodes.

I expect that'll happen in the season finale. In the New Teen Titans comics, it was several years (real time) before he made that change.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Raven - Wow (and I realize they can't have a minor in the role) - but, she's 13 years old in this incarnation? I know she was supposed to be young in the original Teen Titans, but wow! That said, I think the actress has done well with what she's been given and I ultimately like the character.

Actually, per Tales of NTT mini-series #2 (7.82), Raven had just turned 18 when she founded the New Titans, and her revived 2000s incarnation was deaged to about the same. The Teen Titans cartoon version might be closer to early teens, however most of the TT are still about the same age on that show so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[dahj]

Raven - Wow (and I realize they can't have a minor in the role)

Teagan Croft is 14.