Spoilers Titans - DC Universe Series

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by dahj, Jul 19, 2018.

  1. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Location:
    Washington State, USA
    Does that mean Guardians of the Galaxy has major "yikes energy" because Zoe Saldana is painted green? it's not racist to cast a person of color and paint them up to be an alien, especially an Alien that was definitely supposed to be an unearthly color to begin with. If they followed your logic, a lot of people of color would lose opportunities in sci-fi shows if they are only allowed to show up looking like themselves, which is ridiculous. This isn't some weird race changing shit, it's actors literally playing fucking space aliens.

    of course if the show has human roles you want those to be diverse, but for alien rolls there is no reason that people of every race can't be painted up or put on Prosthetics or masks to look like whatever is needed.

    Starfire in Titans isnt orange because the show hates the comics and the characters, and it's also cheap as fuck. The $3 per episode budget probably doesn't pay to paint the two colorful characters even if the people making the show didn't loathe the source material. Race has literally nothing to do with why Titans version of Starfire isn't Orange.
     
    LaxScrutiny likes this.
  2. JulieYBM

    JulieYBM Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Location:
    WA State
    Yeah, the MCU films are historically yikes, too. It took until 2018 to get a film led by a woman, for goodness' sake.
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    They had to get Ike Perelman out of the way before they could diversify.
     
  4. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    Perlmutter.
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Oh, yeah. I mercifully haven't had to think about him in a while, and I forgot his name.
     
  6. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Location:
    Washington State, USA
    :rolleyes:

    While I agree about the (mostly Ike Perlmutter caused) MCU diversity issues, Guardians of the Galaxy didn't have any of those problems. there's still no problem with painting people of color different alien colors when they play aliens.
     
    LaxScrutiny likes this.
  7. JulieYBM

    JulieYBM Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Location:
    WA State
    Within the context of the films bei g helmed by white people for white people, yeah there is an issue. Using your people of color only in major roles if they're specifically playing aliens is yikes.
     
  8. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Location:
    Moncton, NB
    Well, with Gamora the first 2 or 3 actresses chosen for the role WERE white (Amanda Seyfried, Olivia Wilde) but they all turned her down because of the time in the makeup chair. So it wasn't a deliberate choice of taking a black woman (Zoe Saldana) and painting her green. She was just willing to do something the other actresses wouldn't.

    And heck, only ONE of the Guardians was allowed to stay Human. Cooper and Diesel don't even get to physically act in the film and Bautista is painted too.

    With Starfire, the production values are obviously cheap and the Producers for some moronic reason wanted it to be a "Grounded" show set in Detroit and felt an obvious Alien would stand out too much.

    So it's half pragmatism, half buffoonery.
     
  9. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2001
    Location:
    Mr. Adventure
    I didn't realize these films were for white people. Also, "your people of color", I mean if we want to go after each other we could probably go crazy introspecting each other (I know you can find some dumb things I've said).
     
  10. JulieYBM

    JulieYBM Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Location:
    WA State
    These projects are intended to be inoffensive first and foremost so as to maximize profits and that means casting cishet white people in all the roles, doing the majority of the heavy-lifting. They're kept dumbed-down because the second you throw in someone who actually has shit to worry about and that influences how they see art and media you wind up rocking the boat and the capitalists don't like that. Again, the MCU: Black Widow didn't get merchandise or a film because she's a woman and nobody wants to focus on women because "women don't sell". The driving force is all about money. Hell, even the uptick in women in later MCU films was still all about proving "no, don't worry, we can still feed your greed with women we swear!" But progress and inclusion is always a slow, slow go. We're still stuck with cishet men and women as characters, with a grand total of two women-led movies from the MCU (four if we count DC's Wonder Woman films) and again, two of those are about white cishet-passing women and the two Wonder Woman films are about cishet-passing women.

    Let me use a different example: I recently watched the new Christmas movie Happiest Season. It's a sappy Christmas romcom about two lesbians, one of which is introducing her girlfriend to her family for the first time...but the family doesn't know either of them are gay! For all the things the film really nails--how weird and out of touch cishet people are--the film is still about a predominantly white cast with the actors of colors relegated to maybe five lines and no real character development. Mackenzie Davis and Kristen Stewart are a killer couple (tall girls x short girls is so fucking gay) but the film is still ultimately a look into queerness through the eyes of whiteness. It's very safe and meant to be as inoffensive as possible. There are no trans women in the film, either, which writes the impression that trans women aren't a part of lesbian relationships. There's a prolonged drag queen scene at a gay bar which is also really disappointing, too, because that's the only depiction of gender non-conforming characters in that film.

    So, yeah, when I think of the idea of "let's cast our only performers of color as makeup characters!" I find that pretty yikes. The Titans production team not doing that to their original two people of color performers and in fact bringing in two more major characters played by people of color for the second season--one of them being trans, even!--is much more reassuring to me.
     
    YLu likes this.
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    You're a few years behind the times. That was Ike Perlmutter's perception, but since he was removed from his position of authority over the Marvel movies, we've gotten Captain Marvel and have a Black Widow solo movie finally happening. And the success of CM and Wonder Woman has blown that old sexist myth out of the water (though I'm sure there are a few fossil executives still resisting that reality).
     
  12. JulieYBM

    JulieYBM Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Location:
    WA State
    Yeah, five years ago. That's still recent history, it's not like the entire feeling of the industry has changed, either. I've also mentioned that those films have come out, too, later in that post.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    It's progress, though. We should acknowledge it and encourage it to continue. A long journey is made one step at a time, and it's self-defeating to dismiss the first step for not being the whole journey.
     
  14. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Commodore Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    (cough) Resident Evil (cough)
     
  15. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    I'd also think it's worth pointing out that they are merchandising Black Widow just as much as they have the movies with male leads.
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Yes. It wasn't the movie Black Widow that didn't get merchandise, it was the character Black Widow in The Avengers, IIRC. And that was, what, wow, 8 years ago now?
     
  17. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Location:
    Chicago IL
    I find it fascinating that all the talk of diversity with the MCU focuses on the women, and completely excludes Black Panther, which had a diversity of looks but not one felt like a sterotype like "bootleg Starfire", which i feel when they first showed her look, it felt like the bootleg "Hawkmen" fromt he FLash Gordon series a decade ago (!). Had they started with the new costume to begin with, there would be a lot less criticism.

    And i don't get how the MCU is "yikes".... to me, the attempt at diversity with Challenge of the SUperfriends with characters like Samurai, Apache Chief and El Dorado is way mor ein the Yikes category!

    I would love to hear the thoughts from @TREK_GOD_1 and other African Americans on this diversity issue (and especially Starfire)


    Oh... i still haven't seen TItans yet, but did Changeling ever get green skin at all? His green hair looked a bit more natural, and he had a costume that looked a little more like the comic, right?
     
  18. JulieYBM

    JulieYBM Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Location:
    WA State
    Racist stereotypes are yikes, too. Both can be yikes. It's not a competition.

    And yeah, I'm talking from my perspective as a woman, of course that's going to focus on the treatment of women. Just like how Joss Whedon does a lousy job trying to write Black Widow in his two Avengers movies. I really don't care for men patting themselves kn the back for writing about womens' struggles, especially when they have a history of homophobia, transphobia and equating femininity in men to weakness.

    Also not a fan of seeing Starfire referred to as a knock-off because of the way she dresses. For one, sex work is a legitimate profession. Secondly, Starfire is a fierce but kind character who doesn't take shit and isn't the emotional laborer for men in Titans.
     
  19. Kai "the spy"

    Kai "the spy" Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Location:
    I'm not even supposed to be here today.
    Savannah Welch cast as Barbara Gordon.

    [​IMG]
    In the show, Barbara will follow in her father's footsteps as Police Commissioner. She used to be Batgirl, but was paralyzed by the Joker.
    Welch herself is an amputee, having lost a leg in an accident in 2016. She previously appeared in films like "The Tree of Life", "Boyhood", and "Song to Song".
     
  20. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    I don't think I've ever seen her in anything, but it's awesome that they're casting a person with disabilities. I wonder if they'll work her missing leg into their version of Barbara?