Timeline question

[Timo]

The movie is a bit difficult to grasp in the sense that there are nested lies in there.

Some of the players know perfectly well that the Ba'ku are not natives. The Son'a know this without doubt. Does Dougherty? Probably. Does the UFP Council? If Dougherty does, they probably do as well. Yet there's still a duck blind mission to the planet, one where Data apparently is fooled into thinking that the Ba'ku are natives. Certainly the rest of our Starfleet heroes are told this lie, it seems, even if Data has been let in and sworn to secrecy.

Some players know the Ba'ku are the same as the Son'a. These two parties themselves obviously know this, at least. Dougherty doesn't. The Council thus probably doesn't, either. This would majorly alter their decision, as they'd realize the Son'a are out for a vendetta -and possibly for nothing but vendetta.

Some players know the planet rejuvenates. The Ba'ku and the Son'a do. Dougherty does. The UFP Council does. Data may or may not have known. The duck blind crew may or may not have known. All hell would break loose if everybody in the galaxy, or even everybody in the UFP, knew.

Some players know that the Son'a plan will kill the locals. The Son'a and Dougherty know this; it's uncertain whether the Council does. Dougherty has been told that this fast-paced plan is necessary for saving the Son'a, but this may be a blatant lie - perhaps the Son'a simply want to do it in the most brutal way possible, to avenge themselves on the Ba'ku. Dougherty may or may not have told the Council about this, but somebody obviously did some major convincing to get these old enemies into a working deal.

Given all these layers, it's clear that the various players have to make decisions based on one set of information, and then pretend they made them based on another set. There are few if any Prime Directive considerations there for the Council, and in any case the Council (like any legislative body) is a law-breaking organization by definition: that's what it is supposed to do, break old laws and build better ones in their place. Picard isn't allowed to break the PD; the Council probably is expected to.

We are looking at an alternate time line.

Or then alternate timepoints in a line. The characters grow older; why wouldn't they change, too?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Luther Sloan]

We are looking at an alternate time line.

Or then alternate timepoints in a line. The characters grow older; why wouldn't they change, too?

Timo Saloniemi

Timo:

Well, if that were true, then Troi and Riker would both have to experience simultaneous memory loss of having kissed each other before. Also, why doesn't the crew question Picard's unusual new command style (i.e. kill your enemies) if he did change it? Are his crew that blind in following his orders? What reason does Picard care more for the Baku than some Native Americans? Is Picard so easily influenced by the look of a beautiful woman in his older age? If so, why?

I mean, natural change and development of a character is one thing. Making unusual and odd random changes to your characters that just don't add up is quite another.

In other words, if we are presented with silly and odd scenes, character changes, or a breach in canon: a more radical explanation is needed to explain the stupidity. Which in this case, I would suggest that we are looking at an alternate time line.

 

[Timo]

Well, if that were true, then Troi and Riker would both have to experience simultaneous memory loss of having kissed each other before.

What memory loss? Troi comments negatively on Riker's beard: she never indicates she wouldn't have kissed a bearded Riker before - she just reminds the man that the bush is icky, in a manner he cannot ignore.

Also, why doesn't the crew question Picard's unusual new command style (i.e. kill your enemies) if he did change it?

Why now? Picard started machine-gunning his foes to bloody pulp years before this movie. The time of questioning is long past.

And in any case, Picard in ST:INS only kills robots, in the good old Star Wars I-III style of ultra-softcore scifi. He ends up killing Rua'fo as well, indirectly anyway, but not before offering him mercy. Indeed, he almost looks anguished when realizing that he's the only one who's going to survive the explosion of the collector ship.

Are his crew that blind in following his orders?

They have always been, including times when Picard killed millions with compassionate speeches and splendid inaction. And of course, no matter how "blind", they have knowingly and actively agreed with Picard's thinking. They agreed back then, and they agree in this movie, just as readily joining Picard's mutiny as they join Picard's other well-weighed decisions. So the term "blind" is rather misleading here, unless one refers to the "blind leading blind" concept where all these people think more or less alike yet may appear stupid to the audience.

That, however, is a reflection on the audience's attitudes, not on Picard's behavior. If the audience doesn't agree with what Picard does in this movie, it's either also disagreeing with what he did in TNG, or then it's a different audience...

What reason does Picard care more for the Baku than some Native Americans?

What he did in "Journey's End" amounted to him changing his mind on forced relocation already, so why would he now be back to his old antics?

I mean, natural change and development of a character is one thing. Making unusual and odd random changes to your characters that just don't add up is quite another.

But I can't accept a single one of your "changes" as being a valid argument. Nothing has suddenly emerged: if there have been changes, all of them have ample precedent in ST:FC, as well as in the latter seasons of TNG.

Timo Saloniemi