Timeline Question: Starfleet Academy Academic Year?

[Phoenix219]

I consider Where No Man as the end of the first year/season, and imagine the first year of the 5YM as untold stories with the pilot crew.... I figured after the events of Where No Man, they go in for repairs and crew transfers to set up year 2-4, with TAS/STC as 5. That still gives Kirk a year with some Pike holdovers, and time for some refurbishments before the bulk of Season 1 (year two of the 5YM) begins.

 

[Henoch]

In WNMHGB Kirk wore two stripes on his uniform cuff, a commander's insignia. So (maybe) Kirk was given command of the Enterprise while still a commander. After WNMHGB he was promoted to the rank of captain.

And he took over from Lieutenant Pike because he only wore one strip...(me thinks sleeve ranks were a changing item.)

 

[Nerys Myk]

I just ignore the stripes in the pilot. They don't make a lot of sense. Though I tried to make some sense of them once with a heavy dose of fudging.

 

[Timo]

That will do, babe. That will do.

The alternative, of assuming that the two pilots use the stripe system every other stripe-system-using incarnation of Trek uses, basically only requires us to assume that Lieutenant Commander Mitchell dressed sloppily, or for other reasons wore less than he should have. In TOS, the problem is the opposite, with a couple of characters wearing more than they should. Perhaps the prescient Mitchell was compensating for that.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

And he took over from Lieutenant Pike because he only wore one strip...(me thinks sleeve ranks were a changing item.)

No, no, don't you get it? Clearly Captain Pike temporarily went down to Lieutenant for The Cage only to return to being a Captain afterwards. Because you know, Almighty Canon.

Oh wait, are we treating visuals as canon this week?

 

[Timo]

DSC is something of a massively altered premise there: "The Cage" gives us a young and uncertain character who shirks away from doing anything proactive, but has the potential to grow into something more as his would-be televised series of adventures unfolds. Yet DSC would have us think that this weakling of a character, uncertain in the company of women to the point of paralysis, is actually a decorated veteran who retains his cool in face of absurdities and adventures that in fact touch upon his supposed deep fears.

It's not that Pike's sleeve braid is out of place in "The Cage". It's that "The Cage" is utterly out of place as a sequel to DSC - while a perfectly good prequel to it.

And none of that is a problem, as "The Cage" indeed precedes DSC in the fictional timeline. Pike is allowed to grow as a character, and Pike is allowed to get promoted in rank. Indeed, one would expect both to happen. The "temporarily" thing only comes from ill thought out incidental graphics in DSC that suggest the DSC Captain Pike wasn't preceded by the "The Cage" Lieutenant Pike after all. Or perhaps just ill thought out interpretations of said graphics.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

And none of that is a problem, as "The Cage" indeed precedes DSC in the fictional timeline. Pike is allowed to grow as a character, and Pike is allowed to get promoted in rank. Indeed, one would expect both to happen. The "temporarily" thing only comes from ill thought out incidental graphics in DSC that suggest the DSC Captain Pike wasn't preceded by the "The Cage" Lieutenant Pike after all. Or perhaps just ill thought out interpretations of said graphics.

The Short Treks take place before The Cage, or at least Q&A does, where Pike is most certainly a Captain and already Starfleet's "most decorated combat veteran."

 

[MAGolding]

And he took over from Lieutenant Pike because he only wore one strip...(me thinks sleeve ranks were a changing item.)

Kirk replaced Pike as captain of the Enterprise over a decade after "The Cage". That is plenty of time for Pike to be promoted to Lt. commander, commander, and Captain, or for the system of rank insignia to change.

No, no, don't you get it? Clearly Captain Pike temporarily went down to Lieutenant for The Cage only to return to being a Captain afterwards. Because you know, Almighty Canon.

Oh wait, are we treating visuals as canon this week?

Or maybe in "The Cage" Pike was the captain in the sense of being the commander of the vessel, and not the captain in the sense of having the rank of captain..

 

[Tenacity]

Mitchell goes on to serve under Kirk in his first command

Kirk requested Mitchell to be assigned to his first command, no telling if his request was granted.

And he took over from Lieutenant Pike because he only wore one strip...

Thirteen years before TOS season one, Pike was in command of a crew of two hundred plus. By the time of TOS Kirk was commanding over twice as many, more administrative responsibilities.

Pike at the time period of the first pilot might have been a senior lieutenant in command of a Enterprise as it was equipped at the time. By the time of TOS it might have been a very different Enterprise.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Kirk requested Mitchell to be assigned to his first command, no telling if his request was granted.

It's just my interpretation of the line.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Could we please NOT talk about the DSC version of Pike in this thread? I still haven't seen S2 of Discovery, and I can't avoid potential spoilers of the show in my own thread. Apparently the restrictions were lifted on October 18th, but that doesn't help those of us who are following the show on BluRay. So if you have DSC aspects to discuss, could you please use SPOILER CODES in this thread as a courtesy to me? Thanks!

In WNMHGB Kirk wore two stripes on his uniform cuff, a commander's insignia. So (maybe) Kirk was given command of the Enterprise while still a commander. After WNMHGB he was promoted to the rank of captain.

And he took over from Lieutenant Pike because he only wore one strip...(me thinks sleeve ranks were a changing item.)

Yeah, the sleeve stripe thing you just have to chalk up to them not having rank indicators on the costuming 100% worked out yet. Same thing as when someone's wearing the wrong division color. Kirk's called the Captain throughout WNM. That's good enough for me.

I consider Where No Man as the end of the first year/season, and imagine the first year of the 5YM as untold stories with the pilot crew....

I'm not fond of this idea, as it eats up so much real estate of the 5YM. There are a LOT more stories from the McCoy era to fit in, so I keep the Piper era as brief as possible.

 

[Phoenix219]

Could we please NOT talk about the DSC version of Pike in this thread? I still haven't seen S2 of Discovery, and I can't avoid potential spoilers of the show in my own thread. Apparently the restrictions were lifted on October 18th, but that doesn't help those of us who are following the show on BluRay. So if you have DSC aspects to discuss, could you please use SPOILER CODES in this thread as a courtesy to me? Thanks!


Yeah, the sleeve stripe thing you just have to chalk up to them not having rank indicators on the costuming 100% worked out yet. Same thing as when someone's wearing the wrong division color. Kirk's called the Captain throughout WNM. That's good enough for me.

I'm not fond of this idea, as it eats up so much real estate of the 5YM. There are a LOT more stories from the McCoy era to fit in, so I keep the Piper era as brief as possible.

Well McCoy still wins that ratio 4 to 1.... Even that early in the series, The crew seems to have a comfort level and familiarity with each other sitting my opinion would put that mission not at the launch of Kirk's tenure, but well into a voyage to give time for that sort of comfort and familiarity to develop.

Not to mention how much more shocking the losses become, if you imagine a whole season of watching and loving those characters, with this as the year one finale.

 

[Tenacity]

Kirk's called the Captain throughout WNM. That's good enough for me.

Modern day any commanding officer who commands a ship is addressed by naval custom as "captain" while aboard their ship in command, regardless of their actual rank. Therefor a lieutenant in command of a ship would be referred to as captain when aboard, but by their rank when off the ship.

Difference between rank and "job title."

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Modern day any commanding officer who commands a ship is addressed by naval custom as "captain" while aboard their ship in command, regardless of their actual rank. Therefor a lieutenant in command of a ship would be referred to as captain when aboard, but by their rank when off the ship.

Difference between rank and "job title."

Yes, I know. Still doesn't work. Kirk is also called "Captain" when he's off the ship and on Delta Vega. Check out the last five entries on this script search for WNMHGB.

 

[The Wormhole]

Yes, I know. Still doesn't work. Kirk is also called "Captain" when he's off the ship and on Delta Vega. Check out the last five entries on this script search for WNMHGB.

The custom does allow the crew to continue to address their CO as Captain even while on away missions. But regardless, I agree with you that Kirk was intended to be Captain by rank in WNMHGB.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The custom does allow the crew to continue to address their CO as Captain even while on away missions.

...What's an "away mission"? Do you mean a landing party?

 

[The Wormhole]

...What an "away mission"? Do you mean a landing party?

Yes, please forgive this simple modern-indoctrinated philistine.

 

[EDX]

And he took over from Lieutenant Pike because he only wore one strip...(me thinks sleeve ranks were a changing item.)

Always in motion the future is ...

 

[lazarus+]

...What's an "away mission"? Do you mean a landing party?

That made me smile. I forgot that that nomenclature was introduced in TNG myself...

 

[JonnyQuest037]

That made me smile. I forgot that that nomenclature was introduced in TNG myself...

People importing TNG era terminology into the TOS era has become a major pet peeve of mine.