Spoilers Timeless: Season 1 on NBC

[Romulan_spy]

The most logical explanation is that Flynn lied to Wyatt about the identity of his wife's killer, or that he simply fed him the name of a probable suspect.

I think it is the latter, that Flynn gave him a name of a probable suspect. Then later, when Wyatt and the guy are talking in prison, he was just taking credit for killing Jessica because he is a serial killer even though he did not do it. Of course, Wyatt acted on the information without checking it because he was consumed with the desire of saving Jessica. It clouded his judgment.

 

[Christopher]

The most logical explanation is that Flynn lied to Wyatt about the identity of his wife's killer, or that he simply fed him the name of a probable suspect.

I've given up on the idea that anything in this show is logical.

 

[Romulan_spy]

I've given up on the idea that anything in this show is logical.

It is a show that is meant to be enjoyed for the entertainment value without thinking too much about it.

 

[Christopher]

It is a show that is meant to be enjoyed for the entertainment value without thinking too much about it.

Some of us find it entertaining to think.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Some of us find it entertaining to think.

As do I.

 

[Christopher]

Of course, Legends of Tomorrow and Doctor Who have even more ludicrous temporal logic than this show, but at least they're fun and embrace the craziness and absurdity of it all. This show tries to be serious and dramatic, which clashes with a "turn off your brain" attitude and a conceptually incoherent and cavalier premise. It wants to be taken seriously but it doesn't earn it.

 

[Scout101]

Of course, Legends of Tomorrow and Doctor Who have even more ludicrous temporal logic than this show, but at least they're fun and embrace the craziness and absurdity of it all. This show tries to be serious and dramatic, which clashes with a "turn off your brain" attitude and a conceptually incoherent and cavalier premise. It wants to be taken seriously but it doesn't earn it.

That's why I don't know why you bother bringing up Legends of Tomorrow. They're not TRYING to make sense, and are embracing the silly. It would fall apart immediately if they took a hard look at it, so they don't. They're not really caring about the impact unless they want Stein to have a daughter or whatever to protect, so while time travel is the basis of the premise, it's not taken seriously. Just a way to have laser battles vs. ninjas. Literally.

 

[Scout101]

But isn't that exactly what they did here? They were in an airport bar in 1983. The most historic thing that happened there was an episode of Manimal showing on TV.

I didn't get a chance to see last night's episode yet, will check out the details tonight...

Like I said...

 

[Christopher]

That's why I don't know why you bother bringing up Legends of Tomorrow. They're not TRYING to make sense, and are embracing the silly.

I explained why I brought it up -- to discuss the contrast between its approach and Timeless's. One is a show that isn't trying to be serious, so that its temporal inanity can just be laughed off. The other is a show that is trying to be serious, so its temporal inanity undermines it. How did I not make that clear in my last post?

 

[Tom]

I knew they would kill Anthony earlier in the episode since Flynn has the female pilot now. That was kind of predictable.

Also I wonder if they will reveal Lucy to be a direct ancestor of David Riddenhouse. They Implied it a bit this last episode. This makes her saving the kid, save herself. That also make David (Quark LOL) wanting to bang her creepy. lol

 

[Guy Gardener]

Common words.

https://www.tech50plus.com/meet-the-12-year-old-developer-of-alzheimers-app-timeless/

"Sigh"

Emma Whitmore.

Jessica was probably killed to order.

Finding as yet uncaught serial killers to do your dirty work, requires conspiracy and time travel, so Rittenhouse did it.

WTF do you think a totalitarian ethnic supremacist cabal wants with a time machine other than to prune the timeline of difficulty?

Morons.

 

[Aragorn]

The most logical explanation is that Flynn lied to Wyatt about the identity of his wife's killer, or that he simply fed him the name of a probable suspect. Perhaps Flynn had a reason to want one of the killers other victims alive. Of course, Flynn simply could have killed one of the guys parents and would have had no qualms about doing so.

Or they'll make the conspiracy even more messy and convoluted by saying Rittenhouse put a hit out on his wife, and since the serial killer no longer existed, they just got someone else to do the job.

Kind of sad Drew Roy's character had to die for the sins of Falling Skies.

 

[Mr Awe]

The latest episode was pretty uninspired. Quite a drop in quality from the previous week. We had the continual tease of whether it would work or not. I guess that was the most drama they could work into this one or not. Oh no, time is pushing that ill fated couple together for the one night! I don't think so, but that's the only way to create drama. For having researched this, Wyatt really didn't have a plan! Shoot, he didn't even get to airport gate early! D'oh! And, all for nothing too. Hard to make a pointless episode even more pointless but it did!

The other things were pretty much non-events. So, the big, secret conspiracy that wants to control things throughout history wanted to use the time machine to control history? Wow, who'd have thunk?! I had already assumed that's what they wanted to do and why they funded the project. So, a non-surprise. Although, I wonder if perhaps Rittenhouse wants to go way back and colonize the past or something? More than control history but completely rewrite it to suit them.

And, Lucy just goes to her father. Not smart. But, Rittenhouse is in her blood. Not really a surprise because of her journal that Flynn has. Another non-surprise. However, it does make me wonder if what we consider the original time line in this series really isn't? I've been pondering that for awhile and pretty sure that's the case.

So, it's established that the lifeboat can travel independently through time. I was suspecting that would be the case. Although, I agree with Christopher that this creates some problems. They're not just synced to some relative time. So, the lifeboat doesn't have to arrive after Flynn. When Flynn travels somewhere, even if the lifeboat leaves after Flynn, they can still arrive at the same time, or even earlier. That's time travel for you.

Although, that disregards the problem that if Flynn changes the timeline, it's changed immediately for the lifeboat team in the present. It's not like the change waits for them to go to the past and then return to the present. After all, the changes took place before the lifeboat team left! Technically those changes were made even before the mothership team left too. But, such is time travel.

Have to agree with Scout that this show is mainly about history porn. The time travel stuff and even Rittenhouse stuff is the window dressing-- the supposed reasons for doing it all but those aspects clearly take a back seat in terms of relative importance. The time travel aspects aren't well thought out and Rittenhouse is just your basic shadowing conspiracy that likes to control things. After the Benedict Arnold episode, Flynn appears to have given up with a knockout punch and so is back to doingjust the smaller missions. All in the name of the primary mission of the series, history porn! They're going to do lots of time hops focused around individuals.

I'll still watch but it feels like the series has declined a bit.

Mr Awe

 

[Christopher]

So, the big, secret conspiracy that wants to control things throughout history wanted to use the time machine to control history? Wow, who'd have thunk?! I had already assumed that's what they wanted to do and why they funded the project. So, a non-surprise.

Yeah, and it makes it a pretty huge overstatement to say it would mean destroying reality. It's really no different from what Flynn is trying to do, just in pursuit of a different agenda. Rittenhouse wants to wipe out dissent and gain absolute control, Flynn wants to tear down the whole system as long as it gets him his family back -- you can debate which is worse, but they're both equally willing to rewrite time on a massive scale for their own ends.

 

[Guy Gardener]

We switched tracks the moment the ship when back, to a timeline that had everything new that happened in the past, happen in the past.

If Wyatt had saved Jessica, it would have created a timeline where he never went back to save Jessica. Which means the ship never left, and he might have been too busy being in love with his wife to have taken this job.

Two Wyatts.

They both explode, or whatever happens when there's two of the same person.

The only way to really test this without human consequence is by using an animal that is as old as dirt.

100 year old Tortoise who has spent most of it's life in a Zoo?

Just imagine Emma and Anthony carrying a hundred and 20 hound Tortoise into the life boat, and then it exploding when they jaunt back 80 years to inspect the consequences of two identcal living things overlapping their existences.

Imagine an exploding Turtle in such cramped conditions.

 

[Romulan_spy]

So, the big, secret conspiracy that wants to control things throughout history wanted to use the time machine to control history? Wow, who'd have thunk?! I had already assumed that's what they wanted to do and why they funded the project. So, a non-surprise. Although, I wonder if perhaps Rittenhouse wants to go way back and colonize the past or something? More than control history but completely rewrite it to suit them.

Well, to be fair, if Rittenhouse got complete control of the mothership and could change history at will, that would be really bad. But when one the characters says something like "Rittenhouse is a threat to reality itself", I somehow imagined something even worse so it did feel like a letdown even though it was't.

 

[Mr Awe]

Yeah, and it makes it a pretty huge overstatement to say it would mean destroying reality. It's really no different from what Flynn is trying to do, just in pursuit of a different agenda. Rittenhouse wants to wipe out dissent and gain absolute control, Flynn wants to tear down the whole system as long as it gets him his family back -- you can debate which is worse, but they're both equally willing to rewrite time on a massive scale for their own ends.

The only thing I can think of is that, instead of just making changes here and there, Rittenhouse wants to colonize the past. Say send their members back to the New World before the U.S. is founded, or even bigger scale, back to before Homo Sapiens existed, and truly colonize the past. Rittenhouse then effectively begins H. Sapiens on Earth and builds society they way they want. That could wipe out all of human history as we know it.

We switched tracks the moment the ship when back, to a timeline that had everything new that happened in the past, happen in the past.

If Wyatt had saved Jessica, it would have created a timeline where he never went back to save Jessica. Which means the ship never left, and he might have been too busy being in love with his wife to have taken this job.

Two Wyatts.

They both explode, or whatever happens when there's two of the same person.

This is pretty much the problem week in and week out though. The lifeboat team goes back to stop Flynn. Usually they do, and so they negate the specific reason for going back in time, yet they clearly had.

And, I'd argue that there should be duplicates every time. Take the usual mission, They go back, complete the mission, and return to a slightly different timeline. In addition to the above mentioned paradox, why aren't there a Lucy, Wyatt, and Rufus who are native to that timeline? What happened to those 3 who were born and raised in that timeline. Do they suddenly disappear when the team returns to the present? They're obviously not exploding, unless it's the native duplicates who explode offscreen!

Mr Awe

 

[Mr Awe]

Well, to be fair, if Rittenhouse got complete control of the mothership and could change history at will, that would be really bad. But when one the characters says something like "Rittenhouse is a threat to reality itself", I somehow imagined something even worse so it did feel like a letdown even though it was't.

I had assumed that was always Rittenhouse's goals for a time machine. Why else would they fund the project? To go sightseeing? Of course, a manipulative group would want to use a time machine to manipulate history. So, even the big reveal was a letdown.

It could still be worse than just tinkering with history. They might want to completely scrap it and colonize the past as I've written about earlier. That would at least obliterate history as we know it, which is a bit more dramatic.

Mr Awe

 

[Christopher]

And, I'd argue that there should be duplicates every time. Take the usual mission, They go back, complete the mission, and return to a slightly different timeline. In addition to the above mentioned paradox, why aren't there a Lucy, Wyatt, and Rufus who are native to that timeline? What happened to those 3 who were born and raised in that timeline. Do they suddenly disappear when the team returns to the present? They're obviously not exploding, unless it's the native duplicates who explode offscreen!

Like I said, I think I'm just going to give up trying to put this much thought and analysis into the show. It's increasingly obvious the writers haven't, so why should we?

 

[Romulan_spy]

I had assumed that was always Rittenhouse's goals for a time machine. Why else would they fund the project? To go sightseeing? Of course, a manipulative group would want to use a time machine to manipulate history. So, even the big reveal was a letdown.

It could still be worse than just tinkering with history. They might want to completely scrap it and colonize the past as I've written about earlier. That would at least obliterate history as we know it, which is a bit more dramatic.

Mr Awe

Yeah, I agree that your colonization theory makes more sense. I would like Rittenhouse's plan to be more dramatic than just tinkering with history. Again, that scene where Emma has just told Flynn and Anthony what Rittenhouse's true plans are and someone replies with "that would threaten reality itself" definitely sounds more drastic than just tinkering.

I feel like the episode kinda fails here. If we the audience knew exactly what Rittenhouse's true plans were, then we would better understand the stakes and it would add more drama.