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Time Travel? Other Universe?

ive always viewed JJ Trek as - for casual fans/non trekkies who seen the occasional ep and movie its a BTTF/Trek IV type timetravel reboot in which the original timeline is gone the JJ timeline has overwritten it. TOS onwards ceased to exist.. For fans/trekkies its the quantum mechanics multiverse thing. the original timeline still exists (last page of 'Countdown') and we are watching an alternate universe/reality
 
^Quite true, I've seen X-Men: DoFP and Terminator Genesis articles reference JJ's Trek when explaining the time-travel reset both use.
 
All of this is about to be rendered moot, anyway - is it not? - as the next movie, as I understand it, is going to restore the timeline and ... and so forth.

Source?!?

I think this was one of the things Para Mobius and Leslie E. Owen were claiming on their Facebook group a few months ago. They also claimed a new TV series was to be announced January 1, then January 30, then people stopped listening.

Have they given us a new date that CBS is going to announce the new Prime universe Trek series? I have tuned them out. :lol:
 
To borrow a metaphor from David Gerrold, when you create a "new" timeline, you're not erasing it and drawing a new line. You're covering the old line with white-out and drawing a new line over it. The old line still exists, just under the white-out.
 
To say that the original timeline is "under the white-out" implies that it's been somehow erased or hidden. This is not the case. The prime timeline continues uninterrupted; from its POV, Nero and Spock just vanished and were never seen again. It's no less "important" than the Abramstimeline. It's exactly like two branches of a tree, really.
 
it's an alternate reality
I could say it's both time travel and another universe, if you consider each reality/dimension as its own universe (or version of that universe)
 
The thing is with BTTF2 time travel is that we know that changes to the timeline makes things fade out. So Marty's true home was pretty much erased from existence once Biff got the almanac. If prime timeline is still continuing then it's not really BTTF2 style.
 
I know that. But there are several people who insist otherwise.
Perhaps they should rewatch the movie and pay attention this time. ;)
I dunno, that's asking too much.

...hang on, isn't a lot of the whining that goes on about NuTrek actually BECAUSE the creators are supposedly "pandering to the lowest common denominator"...ya can't get much lower than stupid!

True which is probably why so many of them think the TOS universe has been destroyed when the movie clearly states that its a alternate timeline. They either weren't listening or just don't understand. The only thing I can figure is that the part where NuSPock mentions a alternates timeline is so short and almost a throwaway line that some might have missed it. Most of the movie Prime Spock is acting like the NuUniverse has to have Kirk in charge of the Enterprise to make things right even though its 10 plus years to early for Kirk to even be the captain. It almost seems like Prime Spock thinks he is in his own universe with a changed timeline. I think the writers didn't think the whole time travel/Alternate universe concept through clearly enough or decided to change course form the TOS universe being changed completely to a alternated universe being created as a result of the red matter time travel incident.
 
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Perhaps they should rewatch the movie and pay attention this time. ;)
I dunno, that's asking too much.

...hang on, isn't a lot of the whining that goes on about NuTrek actually BECAUSE the creators are supposedly "pandering to the lowest common denominator"...ya can't get much lower than stupid!

True which is probably why so many of them think the TOS universe has been destroyed when the movie clearly states that its a alternate timeline. They either weren't listening or just don't understand. The only thing I can figure is that the part where NuSPock mentions a alternates timeline is so short and almost a throwaway line that some might have missed it. Most of the movie Prime Spock is acting like the NuUniverse has to have Kirk in charge of the Enterprise to make things right even though its 10 plus years to early for Kirk to even be the captain. It almost seems like Prime Spock thinks he is in his own universe with a changed timeline. I think the writers didn't think the whole time travel/Alternate universe concept through clearly enough or decided to change course form the TOS universe being changed completely to a alternated universe being created as a result of the red matter time travel incident.

I don't think its a matter of making things right, but a matter of the best fit for Kirk as a person. Prime Spock, even with Prime Kirk, always acted like Kirk being a captain was his "best destiny" (I think that's from Star Trek VI). Regardless of timeline, I think the point is that Kirk, as a captain, is fulfilling his potential the best way.

I never saw it as a trying to fix the universe, so much as a recognition of the best possible use of their potential. At least, that was my read on it.

I don't think it is a matter of the writers' failing to explain it, but I think a matter of the multi-verse theory just being taken for granted. There is not an on the nose explanation, beyond Nu-Spock's "alternate universe" exposition.

I think it can be open to interpretation, mostly because the multi-verse theory is part of Trek lore, and really has seen many iterations.
 
This is why they shouldn't have gone the alternate timeline route.
Because some people are stupid?

I know that. But there are several people who insist otherwise.
Perhaps they should rewatch the movie and pay attention this time. ;)
I dunno, that's asking too much.

...hang on, isn't a lot of the whining that goes on about NuTrek actually BECAUSE the creators are supposedly "pandering to the lowest common denominator"...ya can't get much lower than stupid!

This is why they shouldn't have gone the alternate timeline route.
Because some people are stupid?

They're stupid for having a different opinion than you?
Yeah, can we not call other fans stupid, please?

Call an idea stupid, or a plot stupid, sure (but be ready to back up your assertion.) Call actors or directors or studio people stupid, if you feel you absolutely must (see previous parenthetical note.) But not other fans.
 
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Call an idea stupid, or a plot stupid, sure. That's fine. Call actors or directors or studio people stupid, if you really must. But not other fans.
I'm willing to walk it back to "ignorant" and/or "distracted", cause there's really no other way to miss one of the only PrimeTrek style exposition scenes in the two NuTrek films so far.
 
There hasn't been a firm consensus, certainly nothing established on screen, but there *is* a train of thought in the fandom that certain things in the JJTrek-verse were already different even before Nero's incursion. One which EAS has explored in detail is Chekov, who (it turns out) probably can't be a 1:1 of 'our' Chekov, as the ages are straight out wrong (so, at the very least, Mommy and Daddy Chekov in the JJ-verse must have had their child several years apart from their Prime seves, albeit they still named him Pavel, but he probably isn't actually biologically the same person in both universes, unlike some of the other characters who might still be effectively the same guy or gal as their Prime universe self despite any changes).

Maybe the Narada and the Jellyfish both managed to not only cross backwards in time, but also *sidewards* in space? Who knows, maybe due to the 'wildcard' that was the Red Matter being involved, if this isn't exactly what happened. ;)
 
Call an idea stupid, or a plot stupid, sure. That's fine. Call actors or directors or studio people stupid, if you really must. But not other fans.
I'm willing to walk it back to "ignorant" and/or "distracted", cause there's really no other way to miss one of the only PrimeTrek style exposition scenes in the two NuTrek films so far.
"Distracted" works, but I think I'd even leave "ignorant" alone.

Truth is, people (general) have a demonstrated ability to miss quite a lot, even when it's right there in front of them. It doesn't make them stupid; they were just paying attention to something else at the time.

If they later choose to wilfully disbelieve something, even when it's pointed out to them, it still doesn't make them stupid. Just stubborn.

Or something.

Let them think what they will. It's not important that everyone be in agreement always about Star Trek. That universe has plenty of room for other interpretations. Even the wrong ones. ;)
 
The thing is with BTTF2 time travel is that we know that changes to the timeline makes things fade out. So Marty's true home was pretty much erased from existence once Biff got the almanac. If prime timeline is still continuing then it's not really BTTF2 style.
There's also the fact that Jennifer was left on her porch in "evil" 1985, yet somehow rematerialised in the "proper" 1985 once the almanac business was sorted. If the other 1985 was indeed an alternate timeline (as Doc describes) then poor Jennifer should have been trapped there at best, faded out of existence at worst!

Doc using the term "alternative timeline" is helpful for the audience and it speeds the plot along, but it's not really accurate. Evil-1985 is more a replacement timeline, if anything.
 
There hasn't been a firm consensus, certainly nothing established on screen, but there *is* a train of thought in the fandom that certain things in the JJTrek-verse were already different even before Nero's incursion. One which EAS has explored in detail is Chekov, who (it turns out) probably can't be a 1:1 of 'our' Chekov, as the ages are straight out wrong (so, at the very least, Mommy and Daddy Chekov in the JJ-verse must have had their child several years apart from their Prime seves, albeit they still named him Pavel, but he probably isn't actually biologically the same person in both universes, unlike some of the other characters who might still be effectively the same guy or gal as their Prime universe self despite any changes).

Maybe the Narada and the Jellyfish both managed to not only cross backwards in time, but also *sidewards* in space? Who knows, maybe due to the 'wildcard' that was the Red Matter being involved, if this isn't exactly what happened. ;)
Chekov's conception is a post Nero incursion event.

All Red Matter does is create black holes. Only one of which resulted in a wormhole to the past. Possibly a fluke caused by the exotic supernova it swallowed.
 
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