Spoilers Time travel issues S2

[F. King Daniel]

Okay so, time travel.

Guinan did not know Picard because, with an altered future comes an altered past and "Time's Arrow" did not happen (which also means Data's head isn't under San Francisco in the Kelvin timeline and I'm devastated BUT)

So surely the punk on the bus should still be an asshole since he wouldn't have experienced Star Trek IV because that's the erased future too.

And surely it means they're not in a "true" 2024 but some weird pocket timeline that will self-erase when the original is restored. So why would a change in this pocket timeline be what creates either the prime or fascist universes?

 

[Tosk]

Can't say for sure until we find out what exactly the event is.

 

[KennyB]

You're gonna hurt yourself.........just roll with it.

 

[Tuskin38]

The Punk was just an easter egg, Terry knows it doesn't make sense, just roll with it.
https://trekmovie.com/2022/03/24/ex...rd-brought-back-spoiler-from-the-voyage-home/

Matalas: It was one of the first things I had pitched actually. We loved the idea that maybe this guy migrated from San Francisco to Los Angeles at some point. Now technically, Star Trek IV wouldn’t have happened in this alternate timeline, but maybe SOME part of him remembers his encounter with Spock in the Prime Timeline. And it made me chuckle that he’d go up against Seven of Nine. I reached out to Kirk right away, who was absolutely game to return.

 

[Saul]

So surely the punk on the bus should still be an asshole since he wouldn't have experienced Star Trek IV because that's the erased future too.

Well, he still is an asshole to be playing music on the bus that loud which would lead me to believe that he never got his comeuppance and him holding his neck was some weird sense of deja vu due to the timeline shift.

 

[urbandefault]

Okay so, time travel.
<snip>
So surely the punk on the bus should still be an asshole since he wouldn't have experienced Star Trek IV because that's the erased future too.
<snip>

Eventually an asshole on a bus will carry his teeth home in a bag, regardless of whether time travel is involved.

 

[DaveyNY]

Once the Stargazer explodes, It's all a manifestation from Q's mind.

None of the usual rules apply.

 

[Dukhat]

The Punk was just an easter egg, Terry knows it doesn't make sense, just roll with it.

You know, I really have no problem with Matalas coming up with some timey-wimey reasoning why some things make sense and some don’t (this is after all just fiction and there are no real rules to time travel and its effects.) What annoys me is that I’m pretty sure he came up with all this just so he doesn’t have to admit that he fucked up and didn’t remember ‘Time’s Arrow.’ It’s ok to say you goofed, Terry. We all know you are making your own story which may be inconsistent with past Trek. DSC did that all the time. It’s not necessary to come up with some convoluted bs in an effort to make us think you had this master plan all along when really, you just made a little mistake and didn’t remember some forgettable sixth season TNG finale from 30 years ago.

 

[Tuskin38]

What annoys me is that I’m pretty sure he came up with all this just so he doesn’t have to admit that he fucked up and didn’t remember ‘Time’s Arrow.’ It’s ok to say you goofed

There's zero evidence of what you're saying.

Considering the million other pieces of continuity porn in the season so far, I find it very, very unlikely anyone on the production forgot Time's Arrow existed. I think it's more likely that they purposely ignored it than accidentally forgot it.

Once the Stargazer explodes, It's all a manifestation from Q's mind.

No evidence of this either. Why would he be powerless in this own head?

 

[Dukhat]

There's zero evidence of what you're saying.

You’re welcome to believe what you want, and I’ll believe what I want.

 

[Tuskin38]

https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/st...inan-ito-aghayere-whoopi-goldberg-1235213292/

So Aghayere said she asked executive producer and showrunner Terry Matalas about why Guinan wouldn’t recognize Picard in 2024 if she’d met him so memorably in 1893.

“I think what Terry does in terms of storytelling when it comes to time travel is just brilliant,” she said at first with a smile. “I don’t think he ever got me a clear answer on it. And I think…” She paused for a long time. “I never will.”

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

Well, he still is an asshole to be playing music on the bus that loud which would lead me to believe that he never got his comeuppance and him holding his neck was some weird sense of deja vu due to the timeline shift.

Actually it would bolster the idea that he never had that encounter with Spock (in this altered timeline), or else he never would've dared bring that boombox onto a bus again!

 

[JoaquinSlowly]

‪‪I don’t get the feeling that Matalas didn’t remember Time’s Arrow, at all.

 

[Dukhat]

https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/st...inan-ito-aghayere-whoopi-goldberg-1235213292/

She didn’t get a clear answer for a reason.

 

[Mike Doyle]

Repeat of what I posted in the thread for the Watcher.

Ref Times Arrow and whether it happened or not people keep saying that the point of change hasn’t happened yet so at this point we’re still in the Federation Timeline.

That assumption only works if the change on the 15th is something Picard and Co do with no outside influence but it seems obvious this isn’t the case.

The Original timeline “A” had no time travel in 2024.

Someone (maybe Q) went to 2024 and changed the timeline into “B” which leads to the confederation this is the timeline that they travelback in and are currently in.

When Picard gets back to 2024 there are broadly two results. Either Timeline “B” persists becausethey do nothing nor fail their mission.

Or Timeline C happens where they are successful in their mission. Timeline C is exactly the same as Timeline A apart from what happens in these 3 days because the hero’s actions stop the change from becoming so big as to make a difference.

So as of now we are in timeline B where there was no federation.

This is how timetravel has been shown to work alot in Trek.

CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER

A: No time travelers present. Edith Keeler is killed.
B: McCoy saves Keeler.
C: Timetravelers present. Kirk stops McCoy. Edith Keeler is killed.

 

[Tuskin38]

Though then you have DS9 Past Tense which is even more confusing

Timeline A: Originally Gabriel Bell is part of the riots, that was the history Sisko knew.

Timeline B: The moment that Gabriel Bell is killed saving Sisko, the timeline instantly changes in the 24th Century around the Defiant. (this is why I believe Gabriel Bell did participate in the original timeline and it isn't a pre-destination paradox)

Timeline C?: When Sisko takes Bell's place, the timeline goes back to normal, except Bell's picture being replaced with Sisko's in the history books. Timeline changes around the Defiant again. So it didn't split into an alternate reality like the Kelvin Movies, but overwrote the Prime Universe.

And then there's First Contact, where Voyager and Enterprise imply the movie was a Pre-destination Paradox, meaning the Enterprise and Borg were always present (except in timelines where the Federation never existed I guess.) Again you see the future change around people in the 'present'.

 

[DaveyNY]

No evidence of this either. Why would he be powerless in this own head?

I didn't say IN his mind.
I said FROM his mind.
Everything they are experiencing is a Q creation.

That's why all bets are off.

 

[mswood]

So surely the punk on the bus should still be an asshole since he wouldn't have experienced Star Trek IV because that's the erased future too.

That's an utterly ridiculous and irrational statement. This "punk" surely wouldn't have only had one possible encounter with members of the public that were annoyed with his music choice, or the volume of it (unless he only did such an act twice in his very existence). Why is it so outside the idea of possibility that you wouldn't have immediately assumed he had some encounter at some point in his life where someone might have had a physical altercation with him that hit his neck. I can personally attest to seeing multiple people getting hit on public transportation in California. From fists, to canes, too sticks, too purses to someone throwing their walker at someone.

Common sense. I would think.

 

[Finn]

The Punk was just an easter egg, Terry knows it doesn't make sense, just roll with it.
https://trekmovie.com/2022/03/24/ex...rd-brought-back-spoiler-from-the-voyage-home/

How did the Confederation deal with the Whale Probe?

 

[WarpFactorZ]

So surely the punk on the bus should still be an asshole since he wouldn't have experienced Star Trek IV because that's the erased future too.

As I said in another thread, punk-on-the-bus is also an El Aurian who is experiencing time sickness because of the familiarity of the conversation from 1986....