Time to Change the 24th Century Uniforms?

[captcalhoun]

they also used DS9 uniforms on GEN. IIRC, Geordi wore one of O'Brien's and Riker wore one of Sisko's.

 

[DEWLine]

The Mountie angle might be why I've always liked the TWOK uniforms.

But then, when I first saw that movie, I was living maybe a half-hour's drive from their Depot Division off of Dewdney Avenue.

And now I have an urge to see the likes of Paul Gross photoshopped into one of that version of the Starfleet Suit.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I don't think cost had much to do with it (after all they made new costumes for guest stars and new alien races all the time). I believe it was just a case that the producers didn't think it was necessary to change the VOY uniforms as it was supposed to be a series about a ship lost in space.

If anything, they may have thought it was appropriate that the Voyager crew were still wearing a now obsolete uniform, IMO...

The uniforms were actually really expensive. When DS9 switched to the new uniforms, the old ones were given to Voyager where they were really needed. Cost definitely had a lot to do with it.

More likely it just wasn't deemed necessary to spend money they didn't really have to.

 

[Warp Coil]

they also used DS9 uniforms on GEN. IIRC, Geordi wore one of O'Brien's and Riker wore one of Sisko's.

I believe this had more to do with the fact that new uniforms had been designed and created for GEN, and then scrapped at the last minute. The costuming department didn't have the time or money to tailor-make new DS9-style uniforms for all of the actors, which is why they stuffed Frakes and Burton into other actors' uniforms. There simply were no comparably-sized uniforms for Dorn, McFadden or Sirtis which is why they remained in the TNG uniforms throughout the entire film.

 

[Strider]

More likely it just wasn't deemed necessary to spend money they didn't really have to.

Sure dude. Six of one half dozen of the other.

 

[shanejayell]

And now I have an urge to see the likes of Paul Gross photoshopped into one of that version of the Starfleet Suit.

Captain Benton Fraiser of the starship 'Dignity?'

 

[Thestral]

^VGR's uniforms were the same as DS9's uniforms, not TNG's. The black jumpsuits with the colored shoulders debuted in DS9: "Emissary" (2369) and were replaced in "Rapture" (mid-2373). So they lasted for four years in standard use, though Voyager continued using them for several more years.

The later TNG uniforms debuted in the third season, 2366, and lasted until mid-2373, so that's over seven years for them.

To be fair, I don't think we know how long the color-on-black uniforms were in service, just that their first televised appearance was "Emissary."

 

[Christopher]

^I was speaking in terms of Star Trek as a television franchise, not of the ST universe as a "real" place.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

In trying to get a sense of how often the real-life US Navy changes its uniform designs, I was interested to learn that they recently underwent a comprehensive review of their uniforms, and will be phasing out a number of variations at the end of next year.

However, I'm still not sure how often this sort of review actually happens. :/

What's interesting is that the USN has returned a uniform to the fold that was phased out after the Vietnam war-- the service dress khaki for officers.

http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=32012


Much like how Starfleet phased out the simplistic uniform color coding--gold (green, avocado, whatever), blue, and red--for something a bit more complicated then returned back to the simpler coding, albeit switching gold (green, avocado, whatever) and red.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The uniforms have changed often over the life of the TV series and movies because that's the nature of a visual medium; designers and directors are going to want to refine the look of their production.

During the heyday of TNG and into "Generations" and "First Contact", some the uniform changes were also due to pressure from the licensed tie-in action figures company, Playmates. The ongoing license becomes non-viable if the characters always wear the same uniform.

You might recall the original "Generations" figures actually came out in a uniform Paramount ended up not even using canonically, because the director decided to use the DS9 uniforms instead.

Playmates covered themselves with "First Contact" by changing the scale of their figures as well as reflecting the next new uniform design.

 

[J.T.B.]

In trying to get a sense of how often the real-life US Navy changes its uniform designs, I was interested to learn that they recently underwent a comprehensive review of their uniforms, and will be phasing out a number of variations at the end of next year.

However, I'm still not sure how often this sort of review actually happens. :/

I would say "Not very often." There have only been a couple of major reviews since WW2. One was just after the war, when the sailors' crackerjacks came very close to being replaced by a short "Ike jacket" with shirt and tie. Tradition won out. Then there was the Admiral Zumwalt review which did away with the crackerjacks and gave enlisted sailors coat-and-tie blues, like chiefs and officers, in 1975. That reform was scrapped in the early '80s.

What the navy has traditionally liked to is adopt something new and practical in addition to the existing stuff, without replacing anything. A lot of current USN uniform items go way back:

Officers' white tunic: 1895
CPOs' blue coat: 1886, with a major modification 1945
Officers' blue coat: 1919
Enlisted blue and white jumpers: pre-WW1
Khaki working: 1941
Service dress khaki: 1922, with modifications in 1941 and 1949, phased out 1975, but now coming back.

That said, USN uniforms didn't really stabilize until the Civil War. In the early 1800s there were many changes in officer uniforms that ranged from minor matters of cut and styling to complete revisions of rank indications.

--Justin

 

[Sci]

For the record, we've seen the following Federation Starfleet uniforms in the Prime Timeline:

* c. 2233: U.S.S. Kelvin uniforms (Star Trek [2009]): Unknown length of use
* c. 2254-2265: "The Cage"/"Where No Man Has Gone Before" uniforms: At least 11 years
* 2266-c. 2269: Classic TOS uniforms: 3-7 years
* c. 2273: Star Trek: The Motion Picture uniforms: Unknown length of use
* c. 2278-c. 2353: Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan uniforms: Approximately 73 years of use

* c. 2344: Wrath of Khan uniforms with belts and turtlnecks removed​

* c. 2348: TNG-style combadges introduced​

* c. 2353-2365: TNG Season One and Two uniforms: Approximately 12 years of use
* 2366-2373: TNG Classic uniforms: 7 years of use
* c. 2369-2373: DS9/VOY variant: 4 years of use
* 2373-present: Star Trek: First Contact uniforms: 8 years so far

This list excludes United Earth Starfleet uniforms seen in ENT and the uniforms from the alternate timeline of ST09.

 

[Fer]

^ What I always found amusing about this is that the uniform that has the shortest amount of "in universe" time, the DS9/VOY variant, is the one that has the most screen time, since Voyager was the only show to go 7 seasons without changing the uniforms once!

 

[Thestral]

^I was speaking in terms of Star Trek as a television franchise, not of the ST universe as a "real" place.

Oh, sorry. Good point.

For the record, we've seen the following Federation Starfleet uniforms in the Prime Timeline:

SNIP!

* c. 2353-2365: TNG Season One and Two uniforms: Approximately 12 years of use
* 2366-2373: TNG Classic uniforms: 7 years of use
* c. 2369-2373: DS9/VOY variant: 4 years of use
* 2373-present: Star Trek: First Contact uniforms: 8 years so far

Actually, the 2353-2373 period isn't quite that clear, as we don't actually know that the DS9/VOY variant was only in existence for 2369-2373, only that we don't see it until 2369. It's entirely possible that the two co-existed for the entire 7 year period; we just don't know.

 

[Nardpuncher]

Just me but the FC uniforms look stifling hot to me! Maybe it's only 18 degrees on a starship or someting...anything hotter than that and those uniforms look like too much.
I'm still OK with them...but wouldn't mind if they change either. What do the uniforms from the online game look like?

 

[Sci]

Just me but the FC uniforms look stifling hot to me! Maybe it's only 18 degrees on a starship or someting...anything hotter than that and those uniforms look like too much.
I'm still OK with them...but wouldn't mind if they change either. What do the uniforms from the online game look like?

Pretty bad, in my opinion.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Star_Trek_Online_uniform_concept.jpg

They look somewhere between pajamas and something out of an Image comic. Especially on the cover of PC Gamer.

 

[Dayton Ward]

Note to self: Subscribe to PC Gamer.

 

[Nardpuncher]

Just me but the FC uniforms look stifling hot to me! Maybe it's only 18 degrees on a starship or someting...anything hotter than that and those uniforms look like too much.
I'm still OK with them...but wouldn't mind if they change either. What do the uniforms from the online game look like?

Pretty bad, in my opinion.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Star_Trek_Online_uniform_concept.jpg

They look somewhere between pajamas and something out of an Image comic. Especially on the cover of PC Gamer.

Ugh, yeah , those look daft.
There's something about tyring to make the uniform look 'cool' that doesn't work. Make it look dignified, and colorful, but do not try to make it edgy. It just doesn't work.

 

[Mysterion]

The Mountie angle might be why I've always liked the TWOK uniforms.

But then, when I first saw that movie, I was living maybe a half-hour's drive from their Depot Division off of Dewdney Avenue.

And now I have an urge to see the likes of Paul Gross photoshopped into one of that version of the Starfleet Suit.

A Star Trek-Due South crossover? that's just crazy enough that it might work.

 

[DEWLine]

It's an amusing idea in its own right, although my imagination doesn't stretch that far.

Gross playing a Trek-specific character in that timeframe, though, was my original thought.