There is a scene in "The Menagerie Part 2" where the hearing room view screen goes dark:
I believe the show then cuts to a commercial break and then, after an unspecified period of time:
Then the screen shows the rest of the events on Talos IV to the court martial members.
And in this thread: https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/star-trek-the-old-school-re-exemanied.299017/page-3
Post number 46 asks:
And to answer this question we need to examine the lapse of time during "The Menagerie".
After the Enterprise arrives at Starbase 11 in "The Menagerie Part 1" Spock discusses his plan with Captain Pike:
Since there is no apparent reason for Spock to lie to Pike in this scene, it seems logical to decide that Spock is telling the truth and the distance from Starbase 11 to Talos IV can be traveled in six days at maximum warp, or about 6.000 to 6.999 days considering how precise Spock usually is.
Later Spock creates false orders for the Enterprise to leave Starbase 11 and says:
Later, just as Kirk and Mendez discuss the report on the previous mission to Talos IV:
After Kirk & Mendez board the ship and it continues toward Talos IV:
At the hearing, Spock requests an immediate court martial. And so later:
Spock then gets the members of the court to watch the images on the view screen of the events in the previous voyage to Talos IV. After they reach the scene where Pike is kidnapped by the Talosians:
Then Mendez orders the court to recess, and Kirk is left alone in the hearing room as the screen fades to black.
"The Menagerie Part 2" opens with:
"The past twenty four hours" clearly goes back at least to stardate 3012.6, making about 24 hours in 0.7 stardate units and making a stardate unit equal to or less than 34.28 hours.
And "the past twenty four hours" probably goes back at least to stardate 3012.4, making about 24 hours in 0.9 stardate units and making a stardate unit equal to or less than 26.66 hours.
And it is possible that "the past twenty four hours" goes back at least to the beginning of the episode when the Enterprise arrived at Starbase 11, thus making a stardate unit equal to fewer hours than above, possibly 24 hours or less.
And it is possible that "the past twenty four hours" goes back to before the beginning of the episode, back to when the fake message diverting the Enterprise to Starbase 11 was received, thus making a stardate unit equal to fewer hours than above, possibly 24 hours or less.
The images from Talos IV resume and the court martial watches. After Pike fights The Kalar on Rigel VII the images cease:
Pike presumably rests for a considerable time before the court martial reconvenes.
So in 0.1 of a stardate unit between 3013.1 and 3013.2 the court martial watched some of the evidence from Talos IV and then Pike rested. For each hour of time those events took a stardate unit would have to last for ten hours. At 24 hours per stardate unit those events would have taken up only about 2.4 hours, and even if a stardate unit lasted for the maximum of 34.28 hours calculated above those events could have lasted for no more than about 3.428 hours or about 205.68 minutes.
And now Talos IV is reported to be only about one hour ahead of the Enterprise.
If the voyage to Talos IV would last for 6.000 to 6.999 days, and if those days were 24 hour Earth days, the voyage to Talos IV would last for 144.000 to 167.976 hours. Therefore the Enterprise should have been travelling for about 143.000 to 166.976 hours by stardate 3013.2.
If there are exactly 34.28 hours per stardate unit the voyage to Talos IV should have lasted 4.171 to 4.871 stardate units, and thus began sometime between stardate 3008.329 & stardate 3009.029. Kirk's mention of "the events of the past 24 hours" would have gone back only 0.7001 stardate units before stardate 3013.100, or back only to about stardate 3012.399.
If there are exactly 26.67 hours per stardate unit the voyage to Talos IV should have lasted 5.361 to 6.261 stardate units, and thus began sometime between stardate 3006.939 & stardate 3007.839. Kirk's mention of "the events of the past 24 hours" would have gone back only 0.899 stardate units before stardate 3013.100, or back only to about stardate 3012.201.
KIrk's statement about the last 24 hours should go back at least to when the Enterprise left Starbase 11.
So how to explain it?
Did Spock lie to Captain Pike when he said the voyage would last only six days, when actually it would last only about one day?
As I wrote above:
Beside, Pike might know the distance to Talos IV and the travel time at various warp speeds. Spock shouldn't have been lying to fool anyone who might have been listening or watching their private conversation, because Spock said that he was planning mutiny, which seems like a much more important fact to keep secret.
Did Spock use "days" which were much less than 24 hours long when giving the travel time to Talos IV? If Spock used "days" which were four hours long, six of them would last about 24 hours and thus be about enough to solve the contraction.
Are there only a few hours in a stardate unit?
What if there were only four hours in a stardate unit? Thus the stardate units between stardate 3012.4 and stardate 3013.2 would equal 3.2 hours. 24 hours before stardate 3013.1 would go back to stardate 3006.1. The voyage to Talos IV would end about stardate 3013.45 and should begin about stardate 2971.45 to stardate 2977.45. And again Kirk would be expressing amazement at only the most recent events.
What if Kirk could easily believe that someone could have taken control of the Enterprise, and only found it hard to believe that it was Spock who had done so, and only learned it was Spock when he boarded the Enteprise after chasing it for days in the shuttlecraft?
There is this scene aboard the shuttlecraft pursuing the Enterprise:
and:
So it seems that Kirk would have believed that Spock had taken the Enterprise long before it was confirmed when Kirk reached the Enterprise. Thus it seems likely that Kirk's found it hard to believe everything which had happened since at least the time when the Enterprise left Starbase 11, which should have been five or six days instead of 24 hours.
So my preferred theory is that it actually took the Enterprise about 6 days to reach Talos IV and the stardate when they reached Talos IV should probably have been at least 3017. But the Talosians made Kirk & the crew think that the day when Kirk reached the Enterprise was happening over and over again.
So when Kirk said that the stardate was 3012.4, or 3012.6, or 3013.1, or 3013.2, Kirk might have thought that was the stardate but it might actually have been a later stardate.
When Spock waves the right to a preliminary hearing on Stardate 3012.4, and requests an immediate court martial, the court martial seen convening on stardate 3012.6 might actually be convening on stardate 3013.6, or stardate 3014.6. etc.
When Mendez orders to court martial to take a recess at the end of part 1 and the court martial reconvenes at the start of part 2, Kirk's log at the beginning of Part 2 says it is 3013.1, but the real stardate could be 3014.1, 3015.1, 3016.1, etc.
And so on. Every time there is any break, however brief, in the court martial proceedings, it is always possible that the next scene of the court martial might be days later as the Talosians make the members relive the same day over and over as the Enterprise gets closer to Talos IV.
And it is possible that the Talosians do not make Kirk & Co. relive the exact same illusion over and over, but might vary it somewhat with each repetition. Thus some court martial scenes seen in the episode as aired seem to contradict other scenes, because they come from slightly different repetitions of the Talosian illusion that was keeping Kirk occupied with Spock's court martial and distracted from trying to regain control of the Enterprise.
Spock is seen pleading guilty and then showing images of the previous voyage to Talos IV to explain why:
And later:
So orders are to avoid all future contacts with Talos IV.
Yet Part 2 begins with:
And apparently Kirk has somewhat weakly accepted Mendez's explanation for why they continuing the court martial in the room with the screen with images from Talos IV. Perhaps Spock or Mendez said off screen that the Talosions would beam their images to every screen on the ship if they didn't continue the court martial, so continuing would limit the Talosian contamination to the court martial group.
Then later:
So the court martial should be over once there is a verdict. But why would they even vote on guilt or innocence when Spock already plead guilty and the court was only continuing to hear Spock's explanation of his motives?
So maybe this scene happens when Kirk & co. remember Spock pleading innocent and not guilty, and when they remember seeing the scenes from Talos IV as part of Spock's defense.
And then in the next scene the court martial seems to continue, and watches more scenes from Talos IV, which tends to give the impression that Spock has plead innocent and is showing the scenes as part of his defense, and that the members of the court don't remember Spock pleading guilty, nor being ordered by Starfleet Command not to watch the scenes from Talos IV, nor having voted Spock guilty.
So it seems logical to imagine that the Talosians gave Kirk and the others the illusions of several similar but not identical days over and over again, with the court martial slightly different each time, until the Enteprise reached Talos IV (or some other destination desire by the Talosians) and there was no longer any need to distract Kirk from attempting to regain control of the Enterprise.
As the Keeper explained:
Obviously reducing Kirk's sense of urgency in regaining control of the Enterprise by having him experience the same or a similar illusion over and over so he wouldn't realize how close the Enterprise was getting to Talos IV would have been a good idea, and so that is my favorite explanation for the contradiction in the travel time to Talos IV.
I believe the show then cuts to a commercial break and then, after an unspecified period of time:
Then the screen shows the rest of the events on Talos IV to the court martial members.
And in this thread: https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/star-trek-the-old-school-re-exemanied.299017/page-3
Post number 46 asks:
And to answer this question we need to examine the lapse of time during "The Menagerie".
After the Enterprise arrives at Starbase 11 in "The Menagerie Part 1" Spock discusses his plan with Captain Pike:
Since there is no apparent reason for Spock to lie to Pike in this scene, it seems logical to decide that Spock is telling the truth and the distance from Starbase 11 to Talos IV can be traveled in six days at maximum warp, or about 6.000 to 6.999 days considering how precise Spock usually is.
Later Spock creates false orders for the Enterprise to leave Starbase 11 and says:
Later, just as Kirk and Mendez discuss the report on the previous mission to Talos IV:
After Kirk & Mendez board the ship and it continues toward Talos IV:
At the hearing, Spock requests an immediate court martial. And so later:
Spock then gets the members of the court to watch the images on the view screen of the events in the previous voyage to Talos IV. After they reach the scene where Pike is kidnapped by the Talosians:
Then Mendez orders the court to recess, and Kirk is left alone in the hearing room as the screen fades to black.
"The Menagerie Part 2" opens with:
"The past twenty four hours" clearly goes back at least to stardate 3012.6, making about 24 hours in 0.7 stardate units and making a stardate unit equal to or less than 34.28 hours.
And "the past twenty four hours" probably goes back at least to stardate 3012.4, making about 24 hours in 0.9 stardate units and making a stardate unit equal to or less than 26.66 hours.
And it is possible that "the past twenty four hours" goes back at least to the beginning of the episode when the Enterprise arrived at Starbase 11, thus making a stardate unit equal to fewer hours than above, possibly 24 hours or less.
And it is possible that "the past twenty four hours" goes back to before the beginning of the episode, back to when the fake message diverting the Enterprise to Starbase 11 was received, thus making a stardate unit equal to fewer hours than above, possibly 24 hours or less.
The images from Talos IV resume and the court martial watches. After Pike fights The Kalar on Rigel VII the images cease:
Pike presumably rests for a considerable time before the court martial reconvenes.
So in 0.1 of a stardate unit between 3013.1 and 3013.2 the court martial watched some of the evidence from Talos IV and then Pike rested. For each hour of time those events took a stardate unit would have to last for ten hours. At 24 hours per stardate unit those events would have taken up only about 2.4 hours, and even if a stardate unit lasted for the maximum of 34.28 hours calculated above those events could have lasted for no more than about 3.428 hours or about 205.68 minutes.
And now Talos IV is reported to be only about one hour ahead of the Enterprise.
If the voyage to Talos IV would last for 6.000 to 6.999 days, and if those days were 24 hour Earth days, the voyage to Talos IV would last for 144.000 to 167.976 hours. Therefore the Enterprise should have been travelling for about 143.000 to 166.976 hours by stardate 3013.2.
If there are exactly 34.28 hours per stardate unit the voyage to Talos IV should have lasted 4.171 to 4.871 stardate units, and thus began sometime between stardate 3008.329 & stardate 3009.029. Kirk's mention of "the events of the past 24 hours" would have gone back only 0.7001 stardate units before stardate 3013.100, or back only to about stardate 3012.399.
If there are exactly 26.67 hours per stardate unit the voyage to Talos IV should have lasted 5.361 to 6.261 stardate units, and thus began sometime between stardate 3006.939 & stardate 3007.839. Kirk's mention of "the events of the past 24 hours" would have gone back only 0.899 stardate units before stardate 3013.100, or back only to about stardate 3012.201.
KIrk's statement about the last 24 hours should go back at least to when the Enterprise left Starbase 11.
So how to explain it?
Did Spock lie to Captain Pike when he said the voyage would last only six days, when actually it would last only about one day?
As I wrote above:
Beside, Pike might know the distance to Talos IV and the travel time at various warp speeds. Spock shouldn't have been lying to fool anyone who might have been listening or watching their private conversation, because Spock said that he was planning mutiny, which seems like a much more important fact to keep secret.
Did Spock use "days" which were much less than 24 hours long when giving the travel time to Talos IV? If Spock used "days" which were four hours long, six of them would last about 24 hours and thus be about enough to solve the contraction.
Are there only a few hours in a stardate unit?
What if there were only four hours in a stardate unit? Thus the stardate units between stardate 3012.4 and stardate 3013.2 would equal 3.2 hours. 24 hours before stardate 3013.1 would go back to stardate 3006.1. The voyage to Talos IV would end about stardate 3013.45 and should begin about stardate 2971.45 to stardate 2977.45. And again Kirk would be expressing amazement at only the most recent events.
What if Kirk could easily believe that someone could have taken control of the Enterprise, and only found it hard to believe that it was Spock who had done so, and only learned it was Spock when he boarded the Enteprise after chasing it for days in the shuttlecraft?
There is this scene aboard the shuttlecraft pursuing the Enterprise:
and:
So it seems that Kirk would have believed that Spock had taken the Enterprise long before it was confirmed when Kirk reached the Enterprise. Thus it seems likely that Kirk's found it hard to believe everything which had happened since at least the time when the Enterprise left Starbase 11, which should have been five or six days instead of 24 hours.
So my preferred theory is that it actually took the Enterprise about 6 days to reach Talos IV and the stardate when they reached Talos IV should probably have been at least 3017. But the Talosians made Kirk & the crew think that the day when Kirk reached the Enterprise was happening over and over again.
So when Kirk said that the stardate was 3012.4, or 3012.6, or 3013.1, or 3013.2, Kirk might have thought that was the stardate but it might actually have been a later stardate.
When Spock waves the right to a preliminary hearing on Stardate 3012.4, and requests an immediate court martial, the court martial seen convening on stardate 3012.6 might actually be convening on stardate 3013.6, or stardate 3014.6. etc.
When Mendez orders to court martial to take a recess at the end of part 1 and the court martial reconvenes at the start of part 2, Kirk's log at the beginning of Part 2 says it is 3013.1, but the real stardate could be 3014.1, 3015.1, 3016.1, etc.
And so on. Every time there is any break, however brief, in the court martial proceedings, it is always possible that the next scene of the court martial might be days later as the Talosians make the members relive the same day over and over as the Enterprise gets closer to Talos IV.
And it is possible that the Talosians do not make Kirk & Co. relive the exact same illusion over and over, but might vary it somewhat with each repetition. Thus some court martial scenes seen in the episode as aired seem to contradict other scenes, because they come from slightly different repetitions of the Talosian illusion that was keeping Kirk occupied with Spock's court martial and distracted from trying to regain control of the Enterprise.
Spock is seen pleading guilty and then showing images of the previous voyage to Talos IV to explain why:
And later:
So orders are to avoid all future contacts with Talos IV.
Yet Part 2 begins with:
And apparently Kirk has somewhat weakly accepted Mendez's explanation for why they continuing the court martial in the room with the screen with images from Talos IV. Perhaps Spock or Mendez said off screen that the Talosions would beam their images to every screen on the ship if they didn't continue the court martial, so continuing would limit the Talosian contamination to the court martial group.
Then later:
So the court martial should be over once there is a verdict. But why would they even vote on guilt or innocence when Spock already plead guilty and the court was only continuing to hear Spock's explanation of his motives?
So maybe this scene happens when Kirk & co. remember Spock pleading innocent and not guilty, and when they remember seeing the scenes from Talos IV as part of Spock's defense.
And then in the next scene the court martial seems to continue, and watches more scenes from Talos IV, which tends to give the impression that Spock has plead innocent and is showing the scenes as part of his defense, and that the members of the court don't remember Spock pleading guilty, nor being ordered by Starfleet Command not to watch the scenes from Talos IV, nor having voted Spock guilty.
So it seems logical to imagine that the Talosians gave Kirk and the others the illusions of several similar but not identical days over and over again, with the court martial slightly different each time, until the Enteprise reached Talos IV (or some other destination desire by the Talosians) and there was no longer any need to distract Kirk from attempting to regain control of the Enterprise.
As the Keeper explained:
Obviously reducing Kirk's sense of urgency in regaining control of the Enterprise by having him experience the same or a similar illusion over and over so he wouldn't realize how close the Enterprise was getting to Talos IV would have been a good idea, and so that is my favorite explanation for the contradiction in the travel time to Talos IV.
