See this post by a SVP at SyFy. The Neilsen's still do make 90% of the difference. At the end of the day all that matters is the money the network makes, and DVR viewers don't watch ads, while online viewers generate pennies on the dollar. Until that changes networks will continue to make decisions based on Neilsen ratings.
Time for mainstream US networks to drop SF/Fantasy?
- Thread starter 23skidoo
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See this post by a SVP at SyFy. The Neilsen's still do make 90% of the difference. At the end of the day all that matters is the money the network makes, and DVR viewers don't watch ads, while online viewers generate pennies on the dollar. Until that changes networks will continue to make decisions based on Neilsen ratings.
That's a really good article. I really like Craig Engler.
It stands out more when they've canceled and you're a fan of the genre because of there being fewer of them.
I'll make up numbers now. If like 80% of all TV shows wind up canceled after two seasons and you get 10 sci-fi/fantasy shows premiere over a 2 year period than you're only going to see 2 of them survive past it.
If you have 100 non sci-fi/fantasy shows premiere over that same two year period than 20 of them will survive past it.
I'll make up numbers now. If like 80% of all TV shows wind up canceled after two seasons and you get 10 sci-fi/fantasy shows premiere over a 2 year period than you're only going to see 2 of them survive past it.
If you have 100 non sci-fi/fantasy shows premiere over that same two year period than 20 of them will survive past it.
Yeah, good article. I considered just making it its own thread, since it addresses so many common misconceptions: sampling isn't accurate, Nielsens has it in for sci fi in particular, online viewing matters (yet), and that anyone cares about measuring anything but ad viewing.
I have never once seen any proof that the shows that get cancelled don't deserve it on a financial basis, which of course is the only basis that matters to the people who have the power to cancel or keep a show.
I have never once seen any proof that the shows that get cancelled don't deserve it on a financial basis, which of course is the only basis that matters to the people who have the power to cancel or keep a show.
Sorry it didn't meet your high standards.
Can't imagine what you find entertaining if Firefly failed-it had good actors and decent enough writing. Considering how high it ranks around here in polls, it must have had something going for it-so, as 23Skidoo pointed out-the ratings may not have been the best way to judge that(or any) show's quality.
Exactly.
Plus if 80% of none cop, lawyer and doctor shows get canceled in any given year while only 50% of cop, doctor, and lawyer shows get canceled, which do you think will get made more.
We need different shows on network TV, they just need to be smart and stop ending 13 / 22 episode seasons on a cliffhanger, more so if you are a new show.
The purpose of a season ending cliffhanger is to increase the odds that the audience will make an effort to remember the show when it comes back in the fall, when the same audience is being pummelled by advertising for new shows that might look like a better way to spend their limited TV-viewing hours.
Without a cliffhanger, how do you ensure that the audience returns?
I dunno. They mananged it okay back in the 50s, 60s and 70s.
My memories are fuzzy, but weren't there season-ending cliffhangers in the 60s and 70s for series where that make sense (meaning, with some serialization - which was a lot less common back then)? A cliffhanger wouldn't have made any sense for Star Trek, which was episodic (and frankly I can't remember any other show from then that clearly.)
And of course the lack of competition with cable made audiences a lot more loyal in the olden days. Things are far tougher now.
And of course the lack of competition with cable made audiences a lot more loyal in the olden days. Things are far tougher now.
I don't believe there is a conspiracy bu Neilsen against SciFi, but, I do believe it's an outdated rating system, that has potential for some drastically wrong conclusions.
I don't know the ratio of Neilsen Measured watchers, but, let's say 5 people in a 10 block radius watch a SciFi show, and 5 people are used to measure that area (And then multiplied out). If the Neilsen Participants happen to all 5 be fans of SciFi, you may well get a result that 100% of the folks in that 100 block radius are watching a specific SciFi show, likewise, if none of them end up being measured, you could end up believing 0% in that area are watching it.
I don't believe they take likes/dislikes into account when setting up who the Neilsen monitored folks are. They make sure to sample X% of the population, but, they don't make sure X% like certain Genres.
Just like polls, it all depends upon who you end up polling
I don't know the ratio of Neilsen Measured watchers, but, let's say 5 people in a 10 block radius watch a SciFi show, and 5 people are used to measure that area (And then multiplied out). If the Neilsen Participants happen to all 5 be fans of SciFi, you may well get a result that 100% of the folks in that 100 block radius are watching a specific SciFi show, likewise, if none of them end up being measured, you could end up believing 0% in that area are watching it.
I don't believe they take likes/dislikes into account when setting up who the Neilsen monitored folks are. They make sure to sample X% of the population, but, they don't make sure X% like certain Genres.
Just like polls, it all depends upon who you end up polling
Agreed. I do remember the classic "same time, next week" on Lost In Space 1965 series and "Same Bat time, same Bat channel" on the Adam West Batman 1966 series.
For some reason, I'm thinking Gilligan's Island had cliffhangers...
Don't blame Nielsens for the TrekBBS skew.
If it's a random sample, then the tastes should also be randomly sampled. The problem is that TrekBBS is not a random sample - this is a place where only sci fi fans congregate - so the perceptions here are skewed of just how popular sci fi actually is.
Don't blame Nielsens for the TrekBBS skew.
There might have been, but they were the exception not the rule. (just as serialization was). The first big cliffhanger, was probably "Who Shot JR?" which made the concept more prevalent as it got killer ratings.
These days even half hour sitcoms use season-ending cliffhangers!
Actually, that is precisely my point. If everyone on this board was a Neilsen monitored TV viewer (let's call it 1000 members) and each Neilsen monitored person represented 10,000 ratings people, that would get you 10,000,000 viewers, just based on the members of this board alone, your ratings would be skewed higher than reality for the SciFi shows. Since it's more of a niche genre, the probability is reversed, and you are likely to miss alot of them
You are not very good at statistics are you? The fact that a random sample would get all the members of a particular message board (or fans of only one genre) is a near mathematical impossibility.
See?! That's the problem! You can't say that anymore with all the time changes and reruns.
