Time And Again or Before And After?
- Thread starter Tachyon
- Start date
Time and Again. Im one of the few I think who really didn't like Before And After. My biggest thing was, for most of the show Kes is travelling back through time and no one in any of the time periods is noticing. They just have to take her word for it. Soooo... how come in sickbay when they're trying to prevent her from making another time jump, she disappears. I was lost right there. And unfortunately, the storytelling and acting and writing couldn't make up for the sci-fi nonsense in that one.
I also though the implications of Before and After perfectly illustrated alot of the problems with Voyager. At the end we have Kes warning Janeway to avoid the Krenim at all costs. But by Year Of Hell, that's forgotten and the writers chalk it up to more time travel nonsense. The Krenim created an alternate timeline where Before And After never happened blah blah blah. That just struck me as lazy writing.
And "There's no time like the present?" Really? There's no way DS9 should be able to pull off a line like "Lions, Geigers and bears, oh my" and have it be a classic episode, and Voyager can't even use a line like "No time like the present" at the end of a serious show without it coming off as cringe-worthy.
Time And Again I thought was not too bad in comparison.
I also though the implications of Before and After perfectly illustrated alot of the problems with Voyager. At the end we have Kes warning Janeway to avoid the Krenim at all costs. But by Year Of Hell, that's forgotten and the writers chalk it up to more time travel nonsense. The Krenim created an alternate timeline where Before And After never happened blah blah blah. That just struck me as lazy writing.
And "There's no time like the present?" Really? There's no way DS9 should be able to pull off a line like "Lions, Geigers and bears, oh my" and have it be a classic episode, and Voyager can't even use a line like "No time like the present" at the end of a serious show without it coming off as cringe-worthy.
Time And Again I thought was not too bad in comparison.
Well for me this is a no contest win for "Before And After" for having a different approach to episode structure and being perhaps Kes' best episode of the series. The lack of follow-through in "Year Of Hell" is no fault of this episode.
"Time And Again" is a dull and disappointing early episode that falls back on typical time travel cliches complete with an uninteresting alien culture and an annoying kid. Plus much of the character building is undone since most of the episode didn't exist for the characters.
"Time And Again" is a dull and disappointing early episode that falls back on typical time travel cliches complete with an uninteresting alien culture and an annoying kid. Plus much of the character building is undone since most of the episode didn't exist for the characters.
I liked them both, but if I must pick I'll go with "Before & After", especially when combined with "Year Of Hell".
I feel we actually get to see two different timelines in 2 seasons. We see one where Kes encounters the Krenim and Janeway/B'Elanna both die, and one where Seven meets the Krenim and Chakotay and Paris are abducted.
I feel we actually get to see two different timelines in 2 seasons. We see one where Kes encounters the Krenim and Janeway/B'Elanna both die, and one where Seven meets the Krenim and Chakotay and Paris are abducted.
Time and Again is an episode I really like, but Before and After is in my top 3 favorite episodes of the series. Absolutely great spin on the time travel concept, and it was Kes (Jennifer Lien) at her absolute best.
I liked both, Time and Again is the one i always like but before and after grew on me.
Isn't Before and After the one with the Krenim but then in later seasons the krenim are looked at in further detail think the episode its Year of hell if I'm correct
Isn't Before and After the one with the Krenim but then in later seasons the krenim are looked at in further detail think the episode its Year of hell if I'm correct
Both episodes are among my top 10 favorites but in recent years I've started to like "Time And Again" a little more, mainly because of the twist in the tale at the end and the whole episode being very exciting with some good interaction between characters here and there. Not to mention some funny moments as well, Paris's comment to the kid "We ate him!" and The Doctor's little outburst in sickbay when he consider himself "on a voyage of the damned". 
"Before And After" is a great kes episode with excellent acting from Jennifer Lien but the story itself is a bit too weird for my taste. Still a great episode and I wish that it had been more properly followed up in "Year Of Hell".
"Before And After" is a great kes episode with excellent acting from Jennifer Lien but the story itself is a bit too weird for my taste. Still a great episode and I wish that it had been more properly followed up in "Year Of Hell".
I agree with you Jennifer Lien did a great job in this one, but i thought it would have been more intresting with her in Year of Hell rather than 7/9 because it made more sense!
..but that would mean they still didn't listen to her warning not to enter Krenium space causing both Janeway & Be'lanna to die.
I agree with you Jennifer Lien did a great job in this one, but i thought it would have been more intresting with her in Year of Hell rather than 7/9 because it made more sense!
..but that would mean they still didn't listen to her warning not to enter Krenium space causing both Janeway & Be'lanna to die.
I agree with you Jennifer Lien did a great job in this one, but i thought it would have been more intresting with her in Year of Hell rather than 7/9 because it made more sense!
I forgot about that :/ but didn't they enter krenium space in year of hell or was it the ship which appeared and changed history, because if so that makes sense, but if the ship did enter krenium space shouldn't janeway and be'lanna have died or i have i just complete confused my self now?
Umm.........What?..but that would mean they still didn't listen to her warning not to enter Krenium space causing both Janeway & Be'lanna to die.I agree with you Jennifer Lien did a great job in this one, but i thought it would have been more intresting with her in Year of Hell rather than 7/9 because it made more sense!
I forgot about that :/ but didn't they enter krenium space in year of hell or was it the ship which appeared and changed history, because if so that makes sense, but if the ship did enter krenium space shouldn't janeway and be'lanna have died or i have i just complete confused my self now?
Umm.........What?
Let me start all over again lmao.
I forgot about janeway and be'lanna dieing. But didnt voyager enter krenium space in year of hell or was it the kernium ship which appeared in voyager's timeline and changed history.
I'm positive its voyager what enters krenuim space because that man goes welcome to bla bla... so if I'm right janeway should have died like kes said in before and after. Do you understand me now lol?
Yes.Umm.........What?
Let me start all over again lmao.
I forgot about janeway and be'lanna dieing. But didnt voyager enter krenium space in year of hell or was it the kernium ship which appeared in voyager's timeline and changed history.
I'm positive its voyager what enters krenuim space because that man goes welcome to bla bla... so if I'm right janeway should have died like kes said in before and after. Do you understand me now lol?
Voyager enters Zall space but encounters a Krenium vessel which claimed the space as Krenium. Janeway meets with the Zall embassidor who tells her the Krenuim are bullies but have no claim over that region of space. The time wave hits, erases the Zall and now makes that region of space Krenuim space.
However, seeing how everything in "YOH" is time based, "YOH" like "Terminator: Judgement Day" is inevitable. Voyager is pre-destine to cross Krenuim space no matter what. However due to small changes in time, Chakotay & Tom to become kidnapped instead of Janeway & Be'lanna dying.
Before and After, between the two. Being a Kes ep is a major point in my case, but, as stated prior here, the fact her info to Kath didn't fly to me re the Krenim later in YOH was noteworthy..and it would have been nice to at least get a mention of her later.However, it wasn't a huge issue, but I guess the timetravel whoosewhatsis changed it?....YOH was a great one...Time and Again did have some good elements.
Similar threads
