Tiger Mothers

[TheSeeker]

I read this article over breakfast this morning. Here's a sampling of it.

There's good reason why Chinese kids excel in music, math and all academia, argues Amy Chua in her controversial new book: they were raised by "tiger mothers" who pushed and ridiculed them into success.

"Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother" argues that "Tiger Moms" expect nothing but the best from their children, and scoff at such Western-style time-wasters as sports and play dates.


According to Chua, the Chinese mother believes:

1. Schoolwork always comes first.
2. An A-minus is a bad grade.
3. Your children must be two years ahead of their classmates in math.
4. You must never compliment your children in public.
5. If your child ever disagrees with a teacher or coach, you must always take the side of the teacher or coach.
6. The only activities your children should be permitted to do are those in which they can eventually win a medal.
7. That medal must be gold.

While others have endorsed strict parenting, Chua admits she relishes a certain "extreme parenting" style. She admits she once called her daughter "garbage" when she'd been disrespectful, and once hovered over her then-seven-year-old daughter for hours, yelling threats at her until she mastered a tricky piano piece.

Is it me but does this almost seem like child abuse? It may be the norm in China and it might work for them over there but what kind of long term impact will it have on children raised this way in a western culture?

I'm not trying to take a shot at Chinese people here but I just find it hard to believe a child needs to be treated this way in order to be a successful adult.

 

[Gepard]

Yeah, I have to agree. Nothing wrong with encouraging your kid to do their best and making sure they work hard, but insulting, belittling and – as the article itself says – "ridiculing" them is pretty horrible.

 

[Shatnertage]

She's obviously making an "extreme" argument to try to sell some books. Anyone who says they have the magical secret of raising perfect kids is full of it.

If this is true, then how come not all Chinese kids excel in academia? And how come many raised by "Western-style" parents do?

Then there's this:

While Chua clearly endorses "Tiger Mothers," she says she been relaxing her parenting in recent years, following an outburst in which she feared one of her daughters would leave.

So yeah, it might be great, until you break your kid's spirit completely and they run away.

 

[RoJoHen]

I thought this was going to be about den mothers for Tiger Scouts, in which case I would have gone on a huge rant.

However, about the real topic, this doesn't surprise me from what I know about Chinese education. I have several friends who have traveled to China to teach, and they all say the same thing: The kids are obsessed with getting perfect grades and they panic if there is something they don't understand. They are terrified to fail.

They are excellent at memorizing facts and taking tests, but if they are asked to exercise creativity, they don't know what to do. My friends were teaching English to college students, and they had them do some free-writing for practice, and the Chinese kids didn't even understand the concept. They needed exact and precise boundaries about what they were writing, how long it should be, what types of words and sentences they should use....

My friends said it was like teaching robots.

 

[iguana_tonante]

So yeah, it might be great, until you break your kid's spirit completely and they run away.

Or they may stab you. But hey, at least they would aim perfectly through the ascending aorta.

 

[Shatnertage]

So yeah, it might be great, until you break your kid's spirit completely and they run away.

Or they may stab you. But hey, at least they would aim perfectly through the ascending aorta.

 

[Ghost07]

I think a parent who did that here would be arrested for abuse and the kids taken away from them.

isn't there a saying that you get more flies with honey than vinegar? it seems to me the children would do better with positive re-inforcement.

 

[mimic]

Someone on my facebook feed linked to this article, which is a little more reading.

While the whole thing disturbs me, the arbitrary rule that her kids may not participate in school plays really baffles me. Does Ms. Chua think that plays/musicals have no value, or is she trying to socially isolate her children so their peers don't start them questioning things?

Regardless, the type of parenting she describes certainly falls under the realm of child abuse.

 

[BolianAuthor]

I was hoping that this actually had to do with tiger mothers... as in mother cats.

 

[Shazam!]

what kind of long term impact will it have on children raised this way in a western culture?

It'll make them brilliant at music and maths.

 

[Canadave]

I think a parent who did that here would be arrested for abuse and the kids taken away from them.

I doubt it. Legally, there's nothing wrong with it, though I certainly don't think that makes it right. These kids may be successful, but I certainly can't imagine that childhood being enjoyable.

 

[Spot's Meow]

Having seen her interview on TV she did present things in a milder way than is portrayed in many articles I've read online about it. When incidents like the piano one were brought up she said that's something she regrets and that in the future she might do things differently. She also said that there are many successful styles of parenting, that this is just one possible way but she thinks it depends on the children and the family's priorities.

When the interviewer mentioned that some people were horrified by the things she said to her children, she said that there are many parenting techniques of western culture that people in Chinese culture may find horrifying.

So I guess I just see it as a cultural difference, with neither way being right or wrong, just different.

 

[Mary Ann]

I think a parent who did that here would be arrested for abuse and the kids taken away from them.

I doubt it. Legally, there's nothing wrong with it, though I certainly don't think that makes it right. These kids may be successful, but I certainly can't imagine that childhood being enjoyable.

I worked in a children's centre here in England for a few years, and in the UK taking a child away from his or her family is an absolute last resort. However a parent who acted in the way described in the OP would have professional intervention and offered councelling or parenting classes which cover basic child psychology. While this is a cultural issue such treatment of child here would be seen as detrimental to the child and require intervention by social services.

Personally I believe that putting such pressure on children is detrimental to their well-being. A child who is allowed no free time to play or imagine or just be cannot develop into a confident, resilient adult.

 

[Kestra]

I keep going back and forth on participating in this topic. I know what it's like for an A to be unacceptable in place of an A+, I understand aspects of collectivistic values, and I've had to try to reconcile my upbringing with what I've seen around me. I'm hesitant to participate, however, because of the personal nature of the subject and also people's desires to categorize every behavior.

 

[Mary Ann]

I keep going back and forth on participating in this topic. I know what it's like for an A to be unacceptable in place of an A+, I understand aspects of collectivistic values, and I've had to try to reconcile my upbringing with what I've seen around me. I'm hesitant to participate, however, because of the personal nature of the subject and also people's desires to categorize every behavior.

I understand what you're saying, Kestra, which is why I pointed out that this is also a cultural issue. What pushes the Tiger Mothers over the line, in my opinion, is the "encouragement" through ridicule and humiliation. My personal experience with this is living in the shadow of my spoiled rotten youngest brother, who is four years older than me and had no social skills but was a brilliant student. My academic shortcomings compared to him were always highlighted by my parents, to the point where, for a while, I simply stopped trying because whatever I did wasn't going to be good enough anyway. I'm not a naturally resilient person so if I had a Tiger Mother I'd fall to pieces.

The yardstick used in the UK regarding intervention from social services is whether the child's quality of life is being affected in a negative manner. The rights of the child override the rights of the parents if the parents' actions or behaviour are detrimental to the wellbeing of the child. In my opinion these are good guidelines, though, of course, every family is unique and each case is looked at individually.

 

[scotpens]

I thought this was going to be about den mothers for Tiger Scouts, in which case I would have gone on a huge rant.

I thought it would have something to do with MILFs who go after younger men.

Oh, wait -- those are cougars. Different cat.

. . . Isn't there a saying that you get more flies with honey than vinegar?

You get even more flies with shit. So what does that prove?

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I was hoping that this actually had to do with tiger mothers... as in mother cats.

Me too...I was thinking we'd get some article about new tigers being born at the zoo...something cute and fuzzy.

. . . Isn't there a saying that you get more flies with honey than vinegar?

You get even more flies with shit. So what does that prove?

HAHAHAHA! I am going to use that next time a family member tries that line on me.

Anyway, on subject...I would not agree with belittling your child. However, I think that many parents where I am could stand to place a MUCH greater emphasis on achievements that will serve their children in the long run, and make it clear that an instant gratification mentality, or a mentality of skating through life at a bare minimum, is not acceptable.

Not all children, of course, ought to be college-bound. That's one of the things I think this Tiger Mothers book misses--and often American society as a whole. We need MUCH better trade education tracks (and respect for the skilled trades as a culture, rather than looking at working with one's hands as beneath one's dignity somehow) in our culture, so that children whose skills are more oriented in that direction are set up better to really do well in those fields.

But I think that parents should put an emphasis on those things that will give their children a future. If your child IS the music or art major, or has the talents that might get them into professional sports, they also need to learn skills so they're not waiting tables while they wait for their big break. When I was in college, one of the football players (who was actually good enough to end up in the NFL and still is there) was actually an accounting major. All I could think when I heard that was that I wouldn't touch accounting with a ten-foot pole, so that was pretty impressive. That's someone who has his sports talents, but also has the knowledge to have a good future if anything happens to his career. (Not to mention the smarts to have a hand in managing his own money and being less likely to get ripped off by an agent.)

If I feel that a child I might have is not living up to his or her best potential, I am not going to let that child get away with skating. If that means taking away privileges, toys, or cutting into their free time or discretional activities, fine. I wish more parents would do those kinds of things. But I would not ridicule or belittle my child.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

I was hoping that this actually had to do with tiger mothers... as in mother cats.

I was thinking Belle and Sebastian's "Tigermilk" myself. Then again, I was feeling sinister.

 

[TheSeeker]

I realized after creating this thread I should have included a little more detail in the subject. Oh well.

 

[Shatnertage]

When I taught SAT prep to classes with a lot of Asian-immigrant and ABC kids, I saw a lot of this attitude from parents.

I was so naive then that I said, "You should tell your parents they should be grateful you're not out doing drugs or getting pregnant" when they told me how they were scolded for not doing perfectly in school. I desperately hope that none of them took my "advice," which wouldn't have gone over well at all.

As far as Mrs. Chua's advice goes, being a parent has taught me two things:

1. Everyone's qualified to give parenting advice.

2. No one's qualified to give parenting advice.

I'd also say that, with kids having remarkably different temperaments and abilities, a one-size-fits-all approach isn't going to work very well. The same's true with adults, I imagine.