Through the looking Glass

[Qonundrum]

To be fair people just didn't think as deeply about what they put on screen back in the 90s either

Or, as Armus indicated, an outside perspective. I'dd add to (or repeat, based on his interpretation of "outside perspective"), what audiences wanted at the time since audiences usually prefer being in agreement. Assuming people are allowed to think into things too much (which possibly leads to problems) or are allowed to think at all (which possibly leads to problems). The writers definitely had their own ideas early on and had some creative leeway. It's actually refreshing, even if it's sometimes creepy. It gets people to think. Then we all see shrinks and take prescribed drugs because we think into things too much, they misinterpret what's going on, and all is well - whee! (Sorry, I think I just thought into the situation too much )

 

[Qonundrum]

Yes, and not just Sisko's relationship with prime Jadzia. Deceiptfully pretending to be someone else while having sex with them is a form of rape. DS9 is asking us to believe that rescuing mirror Jennifer so they might be able to save mirror Terrans justifies rape, which is deeply troubling.

Thinking rape is bad is a "hangup?" Okay, Gene, whatever.

At least it's the Mirror Universe, if anything. And, yeah, sex under false pretenses might qualify as a form of rape. There are means other than physical to engage in coercion.

 

[jaime]

At least it's the Mirror Universe, if anything. And, yeah, sex under false pretenses might qualify as a form of rape. There are means other than physical to engage in coercion.

Not to come down either direction on it overall, but just to add a thought... is Sisko essentially a spy/undercover operative in danger of losing his life or others to lose theirs if he blows his cover?
How do we think about it if that turns up in other narratives?
Bond for instance, has examples where Bond himself, or his ‘bond girl’ are operating under false pretences.

 

[kkt]

There are plenty of times when Bond gave the girl de jour a cover story, but I can't offhand think of a time that he pretended to be someone else that the babe was on intimate terms with.

 

[jaime]

There are plenty of times when Bond gave the girl de jour a cover story, but I can't offhand think of a time that he pretended to be someone else that the babe was on intimate terms with.

True. Historically that is still portrayed as rape (Arthurian legend..)
It’s the mirror universe concept messing up really....on the one hand, he is Ben Sisko. But he’s not. It’s not something that turns up enough in fiction to see how it’s handled regularly. Kirk and the ‘captains woman’ perhaps?
It’s been a long time since I watched TOS.

 

[Terok Nor]

Neither Dax or The Intendant were pleased about being duped. Dax slapped him when she saw him again. I dont think either were thinking rape but if they were it was sort of justified. Not that I think the writers had that idea at all and therefore neither did Sisko, Dax or The Intendant.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Why are we speaking of this as if Sisko could freely consent or as if he were not being manipulated?

 

[Armus]

^Yes he was being manipulated by the mirror O'brien. Ultimately it was not in character for Sisko to have sex with Kira nor Dax in the mirror universe and enjoy the experience. The writers could have had him fool them both without having to sleep with them.

 

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

I tend to think Prime Dax would have acted mock-outraged, then smirked and ask Sisko, "so, how was it?" just to make him wince.

Sisko was in a situation where, if he blew his cover (by not doin' the deed), he would probably get shot. If anyone was guilty of forced sexual assualt, it was Smiley, for putting Sisko in that situation. Sisko had few options if he wanted to survive the mission.

If anyone has raped someone "for the mission," it was Spock in ST:VI. And I would argue that a forced meld is even more of a violation than a forced sexual encounter.

 

[Armus]

^That would have been a delightful moment, if done in an understated tone.

 

[The Wormhole]

Why was Tuvok there?

I was like hey cool we can see some cool stuff with mirror Tuvok and sisko but he didn't really do anything

I guess Tim Russ either directed or was hanging out near the set that day.

The episode aired only a few months after Voyager premiered, and someone at the studio wanted someone from the Voyager cast to appear on DS9. Of course, this was someone difficult given Voyager's premise essentially ruled out any kind of crossover between the two shows beyond Quark's cameo in Caretaker. Fortunately, the idea of meeting with a Mirror version of one of them came about and that was that.

As for why Tuvok specifically was chosen, likely Tim Russ was available when the episode was being filmed, so we got Mirror Tuvok as a result.

EDIT: Just consulted Memory Alpha. Apparently it was originally meant to be Mirror Sakonna in that scene, until Rick Berman stepped in and requested it be Tuvok instead.

 

[DS9forever]

I liked Sakonna, I can see why they originally planned to use that character again. She was in a DS9 mirror universe novel recently.

 

[johnnybear]

Why was Tuvok there?

I was like hey cool we can see some cool stuff with mirror Tuvok and sisko but he didn't really do anything

I guess Tim Russ either directed or was hanging out near the set that day.

I think Tuvok turned up in DS9 to promote Voyager! It's that simple believe it or not!
JB

 

[zenophite]

I thought having Tuvok in there was actually interesting. I would've preferred even more crossover people rather than just an 'evil' version of the current show's crew. On the whole though I didn't care for the MU stuff.