Thousands riot, steal, rape, commit sexual assaults during NewYear?

[atlantalliance]

Neither does my local garage mechanic. What makes Billy Bowtie, physicist, anymore worth listening to on the history of Islam?

How am I allowed respond here? How can I re-phrase this? Without getting an infraction someone?

This Billy 'Bowtie' as you call him

I like him, I find this man's rational thought process good, maybe its the fact he has studied histoy that's why I like him. Maybe I like this man's method of analysis, he has teached and explained events to people before. Maybe why I like him its because he is schooled, he reads historical texts and has a number of Phds and scientific mind of math and physics. I find this man's mind, a mind of scientific skepticism and of critical thinking to be sound.

He doesn't seem to respond emotionally or irrationally like some other people who will go unnamed from now onward

I'd like to know that too. He seems just as biased as any RWNJ

Well there lies a difference between opinion and fact
for example I or someone could say a political statement, like - a number of people on the left love to censor people for the sake of 'political correctness'...that is just an opinion
However a man of rationallity and science might have different method, he might study rational scientific theory. A person like this he might study fuel oxidation combustion, he might do study and observation and some up with 'facts' and make statements such as 'if you put paper on fire it burns'. Saying if you put paper on fire it burns is not really an opinion or a bias, its a fact and if our politics are left leaning or right leaning it can not change this fact.

Read their books for yourself, you can download translations of quran or koran, bukhari, the hadis or hadith and sunnah. Read them, it might take a while but its worth it if your nation is pro-immigration or pro-refugee you should at least know what your nation will be getting into. Then judge for yourself is this man's logic sound, is this part of their culture and are the things he quotes from the koran true?

 

[Gov Kodos]

How am I allowed respond here? How can I re-phrase this? Without getting an infraction someone?

In English?

This Billy 'Bowtie' as you call him

I like him, I find this man's rational thought process good, maybe its the fact he has studied histoy that's why I like him. Maybe I like this man's method of analysis, he has teached and explained events to people before. Maybe why I like him its because he is schooled, he reads historical texts and has a number of Phds and scientific mind of math and physics. I find this man's mind, a mind of scientific skepticism and of critical thinking to be sound.

His study of history is pallid and facile. His ideas of what's in the Koran are cherry picked, and misconceived. His bit on the names of Allah are rife with misunderstandings not only of basic Arabic but of the context of what he's speaking about.

He doesn't seem to respond emotionally or irrationally like some other people who will go unnamed from now onward

What constitutes this:

to respond emotionally or irrationally

and, who would be doing that?

Read their books for yourself, you can download translations of quran or koran, bukhari, the hadis or hadith and sunnah. Read them, it might take a while but its worth it if your nation is pro-immigration or pro-refugee you should at least know what your nation will be getting into. Then judge for yourself is this man's logic sound, is this part of their culture and are the things he quotes from the koran true?

Reading them would be more than Billy Bowtie has done.

 

[atlantalliance]

In English?

nice, very helpful

 

[atlantalliance]

What constitutes this:

Sometimes people have agendas, sometimes people have agendas, they want to sell you more religion, defend a certain religion always. They respond emotionally, respond without logic and irrational, sometimes these people have goals to defend a certain culture, defend religious indoctrination and defend the scams and humanitarian 'sins' done in the name of a religion. There are some people who will always want to give their endorsement for a religion or always support one religion or culture, let's look at one religion and culture for example the Middle East culture and Islam

 

[atlantalliance]

and, who would be doing that?

and this once again would be more baiting from you or more trolling?

 

[atlantalliance]

Reading them would be more than Billy Bowtie has done.

He has studied the region, Warner has a lifelong interest in math and science but also an interest in religion and the effects that religious beliefs have on the course of history and civilization.
This Billy 'Bowite' as you call him studied its culture and religion on and off for almost 45 years, possibly a decade or so hard study, even wrote a few books on Islam
http://www.amazon.com/Sharia-Law-Non-Muslims-Taste-Islam/dp/0979579481

 

[Gov Kodos]

He has studied the region, Warner has a lifelong interest in math and science but also an interest in religion and the effects that religious beliefs have on the course of history and civilization.
This Billy 'Bowite' as you call him studied its culture and religion on and off for almost 45 years, possibly a decade or so hard study, even wrote a few books on Islam
http://www.amazon.com/Sharia-Law-Non-Muslims-Taste-Islam/dp/0979579481

Like that bit on Taqiyya? All that amounts to as a principle is if someone is persecuting folks for being Muslims, it's OK to lie about being a Muslim. Allah doesn't expect you to be persecuted and killed over this as your life is precious to him. Billy Bowtie doesn't know what he's talking about. So what, he filled some books with his misconceptions and Islamophobic ideas, Dynamite.

Appeals to authority are worthless on the face of it, when that authority doesn't know what he's talking about, well, you're not presenting much that's not worth anything but mockery.

 

[atlantalliance]

Allah may have once been a 'gangster god', a god of torture and murder, Allah might have been a woman at one time, may have been a Moon-God, or a fertility god like you see in Hindu texts...we simply may not know because it is taboo to historically examine islam and such examination is often met censorship, with accusations of blasphemy, death threats and fatwas

The word Allah and worship of a pagan Allah existed before Islam and before Mohammed

Islam itself may not be one of the abrahamic faiths....those bits about Judaism and Christianity might have been simply stolen or copied. You can look at it as plagarism, but Islam itself may be outside of 'continuity' it may have originally come from the religion of the ancient arab pagans and be heavily influenced by Hindusim, Persian Zoroastrianism, Babylonian faith, Arab paganism and all the other 'Gods' worshiped in the region at that time

Around Mecca and Medina a polytheist pantheon of hundreds of Gods were worshiped, a Moon God 'Al-Lat' being one very noteworthy pagan god which may be why you still see the crescent moon on almost every flag, above every mosque in the islamic world. Information regarding the Satanic verses comes from respected Muslim scholars like at-Tabari and Ibn Sa'd who wrote biographical and historical accounts of the life of Muhammad.

The implications from Salman Rushdie's writing are very strong for Islam. If true, the tale implies many things - that at one point, Muhammad was bending to local polytheist pressure, that not all of Muhammad's revelations were divine, and thirdly Allat, Manat, and Al-Uzza were all feminine, which is important in religion such as Islam. Crazy Muslims are also vehement in claiming this Allah character has no offspring, ever, at no time in history, not Allat, Manat, and Al-Uzza, and certainly not Jesus, who they consider a prophet, not a part of divinity. It may have been other reasons perhaps Muhammad trying to curry favour with the local Quraysh tribe who controlled Mecca, and the shrine of the Ka'aba. Some people comment Mohammed had strange behaviour simply because he suffered a medical condition and had fits, others the religious style critics might say Mohammed may have been demon possesed with Muhammed himself asking ...I'm not sure of the quote so I will paraphrase - Muhammed asking 'did possession of the devils which I feared all along come to pass'?

Salman Rushdie's writing had strong impact, not only did it expose Islam may be outside Jewish/Christian continuity, it also implies that for at least some of the Quran, Muhammad was winging it.

His bit on the names of Allah are rife with misunderstandings not only of basic Arabic but of the context of what he's speaking about.

Tell me what is incorrect, what is a misunderstanding?

That the man Muhammed muslims believe a prophet married a girl six years old, raped her often at nine doing great damage to her body and preventing her from having children?

Is it incorrect that Mohammad himself married his cousin, he not only was a war monger and but also an incestous drama creator like some drama you might find on Jerry Spinger or the Maury show...I'm just guessing here, I have not seen all Warner's writing or vids, so I will just throw these out and and find how which are 'incorrect'

Is it possibly there some kind of misunderstanding to read the Islamic books and conclude the prophet if Islam raped a physically disabled and mentally disabled woman, murdered a women and had sex with his dead aunt.

Is it a misunderstanding or incorrect that Muhammed tooks booty and slaves and captured wives during his life?

 

[Gov Kodos]

Tell me what is incorrect, what is a misunderstanding?
That the man Muhammed muslims believe a prophet married a girl six years old, raped her often at nine doing great damage to her body and preventing her from having children?
Is it incorrect that Mohammad himself married his cousin, he not only was a war monger and but also an incestous drama creator like some drama you might find on Jerry Spinger or the Maury show...I'm just guessing here, I have not seen all Warner's writing or vids, so I will just throw these out and and find how which are 'incorrect'
Is ithere some kind of misunderstanding to read the Islamic books and conclude the prophet if Islam raped a physically disabled and mentally disable woman, murdered a women and had sex with his dead aunt.
Is it a misunderstanding or incorrect that Muhammed tooks booty and slaves and captured wives during his life?

Herring, delicious food, doesn't address what I wrote, though.

Allah may have once been a 'gangster god', a god or torture and murder, Allah might have been a woman at one time, may have been a Moon-God, or a fertility god like you see in Hindu texts...we simply may not know because it is taboo to historically examine islam and such examination is often met with accusations of blasphemy, death threats and fatwas

The word Allah and worship of a pagan Allah existed before Islam and before Mohammed

Islam itself may not be one of the abrahamic faiths....those bits about Judaism and Christianity might have been simply stolen or copied. You can look at it as plagarism, but Islam itself may be outside of 'continuity' it may have originally come from the religion of the ancient arab pagans and be heavily influenced by Hindusim, Persian Zoroastrianism, Babylonian faith, Arab paganism and all the other 'Gods' worshiped in the region at that time

Around Mecca and Medina a polytheist pantheon of hundreds of Gods were worshiped, a Moon God 'Al-Lat' being one very noteworthy pagan god which may be why you still see the crescent moon on almost every flag, above every mosque in the islamic world. Information regarding the Satanic verses comes from respected Muslim scholars like at-Tabari and Ibn Sa'd who wrote biographical and historical accounts of the life of Muhammad.

The implications from Salman Rushdie's writing are very strong for Islam. If true, the tale implies many things - that at one point, Muhammad was bending to local polytheist pressure, that not all of Muhammad's revelations were divine, and thirdly Allat, Manat, and Al-Uzza were all feminine, which is important in religion such as Islam. Crazy Muslims are also vehement in claiming this Allah character has no offspring, ever, at no time in history, not Allat, Manat, and Al-Uzza, and certainly not Jesus, who they consider a prophet, not a part of divinity. It may have been other reasons perhaps Muhammad trying to curry favour with the local Quraysh tribe who controlled Mecca, and the shrine of the Ka'aba. Some people comment Mohammed had strange behaviour simply because he suffered a medical condition and had fits, others the religious style critics might say Mohammed may have been demon possesed with Muhammed himself asking did possession of the devils which I feared all along come to pass?

Salman Rushdie's writing had strong impact, not only did it expose Islam may be outside Jewish/Christian continuity, it also implies that for at least some of the Quran, Muhammad was winging it.



Tell me what is incorrect, what is a misunderstanding?
That the man Muhammed muslims believe a prophet married a girl six years old, raped her often at nine doing great damage to her body and preventing her from having children?
Is it incorrect that Mohammad himself married his cousin, he not only was a war monger and but also an incestous drama creator like some drama you might find on Jerry Spinger or the Maury show...I'm just guessing here, I have not seen all Warner's writing or vids, so I will just throw these out and and find how which are 'incorrect'

Is it possibly there some kind of misunderstanding to read the Islamic books and conclude the prophet if Islam raped a physically disabled and mentally disabled woman, murdered a women and had sex with his dead aunt.
Is it a misunderstanding or incorrect that Muhammed tooks booty and slaves and captured wives during his life?

That's one of the most long-winded ways to say 'I got nothing' I've seen in some time. Good job on the rambling inchoate scrawl. One might think you glanced at a book cover for resources to write all that.

 

[atlantalliance]

So you're a Muslim then Gov Kodos?

 

[Gov Kodos]

So you're a Muslim then Gov Kodos?

Accepted Billy Bowtie doesn't know what he's talking about? Allah the Deceiver? The example commonly used revolves around translating makr which concerns cunning, foxiness, and deception. It is in the verses where the unbelievers scheme to kill Jesus but Allah outfoxes them, he being most clever and foxy, makes one of the unbelieving would be murderers look like Jesus. That chump dies and the real Jesus ascends to heaven to be with Allah.

So, not going to address Billy Bowtie's lack of knowledge of basic Arabic, or of the Koran which he is cherry picking from?

 

[atlantalliance]

and what about suicide attacks Gov Kodos, do you feel that under some circumstances suicide attacks could possibly be justified? maybe in some kind of war or resistance?

Did you take to the streets when the Tsarnaev brothers carried out their attacks, did you take to the streets and hold hands with your fellow Bostonians?

 

[Gov Kodos]

and what about suicide attacks Gov Kodos, do you feel that under some circumstances suicide attacks could possibly be justified? maybe in some kind of war or resistance? Did you take to the streets when the Tsarnaev brothers carried out their attacks, did you take to the streets and hold hands with your fellow Bostonians?

So, we can take it by your attempts to deflect that you cannot or will not defend Billy Bowtie's ignorance of language and Islam. Can we also assume, like he seems to be, you are equally illiterate of the subject as Billy Bowtie?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I don't think I've ever seen goalposts move so fast in my life.

Bottom line is Bill Warner is a fraud. His approach to Islam has zero basis in sound historical methods. He doesn't know Arabic. He gets extremely basic facts of history wrong. Call me crazy, I think I'd rather listen to actual historians than some crank who dabbles in history.

 

[atlantalliance]

So you need to speak Arabic and read Arabic before you can attempt to understand the Koran or Quran and Muslim culture is that what you guys are saying?

Would you also need to understand, read, speak "Latin/Greek", " Coptic", "Armenian", "Hebrew" and "Aramaic" before you understand Christianity?

Would you need to understand, read and speak "Pali", "Sanskrit", "Chinese" "Japanese" and "Hindi" lanuage of India before you undertsand Buddhism?

So Gov Kodos what about suicide attacks, do you feel that under some circumstances suicide attacks could possibly be justified? maybe in some kind of war or resistance?

Did you take to the streets when the Tsarnaev brothers carried out their attacks, did you take to the streets and hold hands with your fellow Bostonians?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

So you need to speak Arabic and read Arabic before you can attempt to understand the Koran or Quran and Muslim culture is that what you guys are saying?

Uh, yeah, I would say if you really want to understand the Qu'ran, you kinda have to know Arabic.

Would you also need to understand, read, speak "Latin/Greek", " Coptic", "Armenian", "Hebrew" and "Aramaic" before you understand Christianity?

To understand it well enough to be considered an expert, absolutely.

Would you need to understand, read and speak "Pali", "Sanskrit", "Chinese" "Japanese" and "Hindi" lanuage of India before you undertsand Buddhism?

Again: if you want to claim expertise on the topic, hell yes.

So Gov Kodos what about suicide attacks, do you feel that under some circumstances suicide attacks could possibly be justified? maybe in some kind of war or resistance?

What makes suicide attacks special compared to other kinds of attacks?

Did you take to the streets when the Tsarnaev brothers carried out their attacks, did you take to the streets and hold hands with your fellow Bostonians?

Holy non sequitur.

 

[Gov Kodos]

So you need to speak Arabic and read Arabic before you can attempt to understand the Koran or Quran and Muslim culture is that what you guys are saying?

It's clear Billy Bowtie doesn't understand it and is ignorant of everything you claimed he's an expert on. Now, you're saying his ignorance of the topic doesn't matter to his presenting himself as informed on Islam?

 

[atlantalliance]

wow this thread is progressing nicely

it is now a thread where suicide bomber attacks are being defended
first there were posts to defend illegal immigration
then posts in defense of rape
now we have excuses made for suicide bombers

What makes suicide attacks special compared to other kinds of attacks?

fantastic guys! keep going

Looks like Sweden might do a U-turn
Sweden to deport up to 80,000 failed asylum-seekers in the coming years – Interior Minister

http://www.independent.com.mt/artic...the-coming-years-Interior-Minister-6736152445

Interior Minister Anders Ygeman says Sweden could deport between 60,000 and 80,000 asylum-seekers in coming years.

Ygeman told newspaper Dagens Industri that since about 45 percent of asylum applications are currently rejected, the country must get ready to send back tens of thousands of the 163,000 who sought shelter in Sweden last year.

"I think that it could be about 60,000 people, but it could also be up to 80,000," Ygeman was quoted as saying.

His spokesman, Victor Harju, confirmed the quotes Thursday, adding that the minister was simply applying the current approval rate to the record number of asylum-seekers that arrived in 2015. Harju adds: "That rate could of course change."

Germany and Sweden were the top destinations for asylum-seekers in Europe last year.

 

[Gov Kodos]

wow this thread is progressing nicely

it is now a thread where suicide bomber attacks are being defended
first there were posts defend illegal immigration
then posts in defense of rape
now we have excuses made for suicide bombers

Oh, really, Where is that? You seem as astute as Billy Bowtie whom you still haven't addressed the clear deficiencies of.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

So you're a Muslim then Gov Kodos?

Did you take to the streets when the Tsarnaev brothers carried out their attacks, did you take to the streets and hold hands with your fellow Bostonians?

wow this thread is progressing nicely
it is now a thread where suicide bomber attacks are being defended
first there were posts to defend illegal immigration
then posts in defense of rape
now we have excuses made for suicide bombers

Infraction for trolling. Comments to PM. If you want to start a witchhunt based on strawman attacks do it somewhere else. Other people have managed to discuss the immigrant situation in Europe without resorting to the extremism and accusations being thrown around here. This thread is closed.