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Thoughts on Day of Honor?

Quinton O'Connor

Commodore
Commodore
Copying the bulk of this over from the "last episode you watched" thread on the general board. I hadn't realized I had so much to say, so when I finished I realized it might be worth a topic. That said, I'm sure this isn't remotely original. It's a 15-year-old ep. But dammit, I was moved!

Wow. This is a really good episode. Aside from feeling somewhat dissatisfied with how easily the alien beggars get off, that is. It wouldn't have bothered me so much if it weren't for the dialogue the lead alien (come to think of it, we only ever see him...) makes about how many of is people would enjoy the chance to pay Seven back for what the Borg did. On its own, it's a fair line, insofar as it properly showcased how badly his people wanted the Borg to pay for what they'd done. But there's something about the way he says it that makes me want to punch him in the face, repeatedly. Just... really dark, I dunno.

Ahem, but anyway. The B'Elanna story is really well-crafted and the crew is in top form this episode. Aside from poor Harry, everyone gets a little bit of screen time love and yet the episode still manages to deliver its primary focuses of B'Elanna, B'Elanna and Tom, and Seven, all while juggling the alien plot.

Really impressive. And I was reminded why I loved B'Elanna/Tom as a ten-to-thirteen year old when S4-7 originally aired. They really do have great chemistry, as characters as well as actors. I positively winced in 1997 when it looked like the two of them were going to die out there, unable to at least kiss each other properly after she admits her love for him. I was pretty darn sure they weren't going to die like that, but damn, I was ten.

Well, I winced again tonight, all the same. Excellent resolution with the characters still breathless, and an incredibly satisfying end shot of Voyager coming into view over the glass of B'Elanna's helmet.

Also, props for the B'Elanna/Neelix scene. Heartfelt stuff. This is the kind of episode that feels like the best sort of fan fiction in some fashions -- it really took the time to explore a few characters in meaningful ways, and the time dedicated to it felt natural as opposed to somewhat rushed in the typical Trek (TV at large, really) necessity to "get back" to the main event. Most scenes really did feel like they played out in thoughtful ways, yet nothing felt like it dragged.

Again, not totally thrilled with how the alien plot ended, although I'm not saying I'd have genuinely preferred Voyager just blew up a few of the ships, either. Not sure how I'd handle it offhand, but bleh, whatever. Regardless, the episode's a 9/10 for sure.
 
Dawson was at the top of her game in this one, and she's impressed me all throughout. With this episode, she really had to shuffle across a plethora of emotions, and she didn't disappoint at all. She was angry, funny, resentful, remorseful, radiant and proud, all at differing times.
 
I remember being quite impressed by the fact that they showed a warp core ejection for the first time in Trek, and then wondered how they manged to show Engineering sans core in a later scene.
 
Seven of Nine is now called Seven and she desires to help build transwarp parameters in Voyagers engines. The first time she was called to duty and she handles it all like a princess on a field trip. When she's finished, like a damsel in distress she then seeks her alcove. Care free and light hearted was her attitude and, similarly, that is how Voyagers engines quit. All they had to do was bring the changes on line and Voyager almost exploded through a warp core breach.

[Bridge]
TORRES [OC]: We're ready to start, Captain.
JANEWAY: Go ahead. We'll monitor your progress from here.

: We'll need to be at warp speed to create a large enough subspace field. I'd like to reroute helm control to Engineering.
JANEWAY [OC]: Agreed. Janeway out.
TORRES: Take us past
PARIS: Past warp two. I know. We're at warp two point three.
TORRES: All right. Vorik, start emitting the tachyons.
VORIK: Energising the matrix.
SEVEN: There's no indication of a subspace field. I recommend switching to a higher energy band.
PARIS: That did something.
SEVEN: The subspace field is forming.
TORRES: Tachyon particles are leaking into the propulsion system!
PARIS: Shut down the deflector!
VORIK: Done. But the leak is continuing.
JANEWAY [OC]: Janeway to Engineering.
TORRES: The tachyons are flooding the warp core, Captain.
PARIS: B'Elanna, there's no more time. We've got to get out of here. Come on.
TORRES: Computer, prepare to eject the warp core, authorisation Torres omega phi nine three


I'm sure if Seven of Nine was both more careful and extenuating with the changes, a warp core breach could have been passed. Later they must have patched what they don't know because Voyager flew Transwarp just by acquiring a coil.
 
Aside from feeling somewhat dissatisfied with how easily the alien beggars get off, that is. It wouldn't have bothered me so much if it weren't for the dialogue the lead alien (come to think of it, we only ever see him...) makes about how many of is people would enjoy the chance to pay Seven back for what the Borg did. On its own, it's a fair line, insofar as it properly showcased how badly his people wanted the Borg to pay for what they'd done. But there's something about the way he says it that makes me want to punch him in the face, repeatedly. Just... really dark, I dunno.

You are not the only one who felt this way. You can understand the rage, but then he just turns into a jackass for the remainder of the episode.
 
Tom Paris' thoughts on the matter...

"Day of honor? Shucks... I more think of that as the day I finally got on her."
 
I really wish they would had done more with the Klingons on VOY, Nemecek wanted a Klingon episode for every season.
 
Re: jackass aliens.

I suspect the aliens were painted in fairly broad strokes, to highlight WHY our own crew would not treat Seven poorly just because she was a former Borg.

Or at least, any of our crew that didn't have a Klingon Mother and a Human father...

Or any crew that did not have a Ktarian Father and a Human Mother.

It was nice to see no one on the crew came up and tried to pick a fight with Seven just because she was a former BORG.
 
Re: jackass aliens.

I suspect the aliens were painted in fairly broad strokes, to highlight WHY our own crew would not treat Seven poorly just because she was a former Borg.

Or at least, any of our crew that didn't have a Klingon Mother and a Human father...

Or any crew that did not have a Ktarian Father and a Human Mother.

It was nice to see no one on the crew came up and tried to pick a fight with Seven just because she was a former BORG.

Torres ripped into Seven quite reguarly and even threatened physical violence on a number of occasions.

Paris indirectly insulted her by saying all Borg are mindless automotons and should be done a favor by killing them in earshot of Seven.

Janeway was really a contradiction "You're free from the Borg now." "I want to return to the Collective." "They took the power of choice from you, you have to do as I say until you choose to do what I want freely."

Even her loverboy Chakotay said she had attitude problems in one of his few lines.

The only two that really welcomed her were Kim and the Doctor. And even then, they had very obvious ulterior motives. And it was just a coincidence the Doctor put her in that skintight outfit?
 
Torres ripped into Seven quite reguarly and even threatened physical violence on a number of occasions.

Hence my comment... our own crew would not treat Seven poorly just because she was a former Borg. Or at least, any of our crew that didn't have a Klingon Mother and a Human father...

Tom didn't insult the Borg within earshot to hurt Seven, and he had the good graces to look embarrassed when she called him on it.

As for Mama Janeway and the power of choice, surely you and Neelix learned in season 1 that this wasn't a democracy, and the ship doesn't move to the whims of its crew or passengers?

Janeway was the Mother speaking to the 15 year old who thinks she knows everything. Mama knows that's far from the truth, and until she's sure Seven is thinking/rationalizing as an individual and not spouting simple instinct to return to the Hive mind, then Mama will intervene. :devil:
 
"Mama Janeway and the Power of Choice" sort of sounds like something I'd expect to find in the children's educational section in a book or video store. I guess it's fitting, then.

And yeah, I understand the rationale for the aliens being presented as they are. There's just something a bit unsettling about how the crew is willing to fork things over at the end of the episode after the sorts of things that guy had said about Seven. Well, I can see how Starfleet would want to help regardless.

Yeah, taking a broad step back, they were in need so whatever, I suppose. But damn, if they didn't act like complete jackasses the whole time! I'm a pretty giving person, I think, but if a bum spat on me, stole my bike, and begrudgingly returned the front wheel later on when pressed, I'm not so sure I'd hand him a buck.
 
My pardon on missing the Torres reference in your previous post. The way you phrased it seemed to be you were referring to them being accepting of her to me.

"Mama Janeway and the Power of Choice" Someone should post that over in the Voyager book thread. :P

And hey, I'm regularly critical of Janeway for being a tyrant at times. Certainly more so than any regular series captain we've seen so far. Though as presumably a Janeway fan yourself, I'm surprised you'd so openly refer to it. ;)
 
Regarding Seven's officialdom with her stay on Voyager it was all something she just walked through. Janeway and Seven challenged each other both ways (sexually) even when the situation just required an exchange of data. 'Mother' is rather diminuitive, 'Lesbo' is the stronger word. Torres's complaint is something she just looked at, feeling superior physically and mentally. I'm sure if they challenged each other tsiakuntsi style Seven could only lose face because of attrition.
Voyager was almost a cloud of shredded pieces of stuff because Seven wouldn't gather an ounce of her erudite self . For this reason at the end of the ep. she must save Voyager anyway.
 
They should have taken longer to get her to that place.

Although if you take a look at Someone to Watch Over Me, we see how Seven's process works in picking the perfect mate and she disqualifies women instantly but without prejudice.

Although that could be becuase she's decided that none of the girls on board are lesbians?

Her gadar might be shoddy, or kathryn was some what racist when putting her crew together, or it's just a huge coincidence?

Or it's even possible that the Doctor hadn't got around to teaching her about homosexuality yet?
 
There is no indication anything of that nature went on behind closed doors.
Their are indications Seven went after the doctor since he cared somewhat about his member so did Seven. There are direct indications she went after the holo-character Chakotay and that continued until the last ep. She certainly didn't go after 'One' In 'Drone' although it could have patched how it ended. Seven and Qatai could have got together in 'Bliss' since everyone else was asleep. She was very adult at the time.
 
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