Thoughts on Burnham's relationship to Sarek

[Captain Indecisive]

This is like driving by a handicap parking spot and getting upset that you can't park there.

No it isn't. I've never been angry about such a thing. Nor do I feign indignation when someone not disabled used the spot.

However, this isn't the same thing as a person getting job because of skin colour, gender, etc.

If a black actress can play a role previously portrayed by a white actress, then a white can can be Geordi LaForge.

I'm all for diversity - truth be told I'm tired of looking at white guys in movies - but it has to lead to equality., not simply more imbalance.

 

[Captain Indecisive]

Is that really all you can think about? I've been reading so many of your posts, but it all comes down to this ... why don't you just get a life and forget about all your hate and prejudice? We are all different people ... different nations, different skin colors, differend beliefs ... and I respect every single one of them, without feeling the need to push one forward no matter what. I don't know what kind of mental issues you might have, but why don't you just calm down and actually enjoy diversity instead of forcing it onto everyone who is openminded anyway?

That is a tad aggressive and over the top.

I am not for one minute speaking for people who are Transgender, but the idea of seeing a Woman, with a male name, struggling with her identity, may fit the circumstances they are going through if transitioning.

I didn't mean my question in a "what gives you the right to speak for people" way. I just couldn't see how a character name would make an impact one way or the other.

And we have no idea who named her Michael etc. But the name is a direct reference to gender norms, and the Identity is moved to a sci-fi trope to keep it in-universe, but could speak to the same issues of being assumed to be one thing, even when you feel you are something else.

Makes sense.

 

[mdtauk]

No it isn't. I've never been angry about such a thing. Nor do I feign indignation when someone not disabled used the spot.

However, this isn't the same thing as a person getting job because of skin colour, gender, etc.

If a black actress can play a role previously portrayed by a white actress, then a white can can be Geordi LaForge.

I'm all for diversity - truth be told I'm tired of looking at white guys in movies - but it has to lead to equality., not simply more imbalance.

I don't really want to get into a conversation about race and acting diversity, being a fat white male, I have no experience to draw on.

But why not develop new characters that can be played, shaped, developed by minorities and people of colour, based on their experiences, rather than taking existing characters and re-interpreting them in a different way?

There would be outcry if white actors replace people of other genders and races, and also there would be a kind of dishonesty in ethnic actors replacing characters that have been defined by white actors.

Then there is the bigger issue of characters of colour being written by white writers who exist in a kind of bubble without the experiences they are trying to write about. We need diversity in the crew, writers, producers as much as the cast, so the experiences of those of colour, can be presented in an honest and nuanced way, and not making assumptions on how they should be portrayed.

 

[Awesome Possum]

No it isn't. I've never been angry about such a thing. Nor do I feign indignation when someone not disabled used the spot.

However, this isn't the same thing as a person getting job because of skin colour, gender, etc.

If a black actress can play a role previously portrayed by a white actress, then a white can can be Geordi LaForge.

I'm all for diversity - truth be told I'm tired of looking at white guys in movies - but it has to lead to equality., not simply more imbalance.

There's already an imbalance. Replacing a white character with a black then doing vice versa still leads to more white people.

If you're tired of seeing white people then why are you arguing for more white people?

 

[{ Emilia }]

Is that really all you can think about? I've been reading so many of your posts, but it all comes down to this ... why don't you just get a life and forget about all your hate and prejudice? We are all different people ... different nations, different skin colors, differend beliefs ... and I respect every single one of them, without feeling the need to push one forward no matter what.

You don't understand diversity. It's the opposite of "pushing one ethnicity forward".

People who are aware of structural issues in our societies (like sexism and racism) tend to bring those up because ignoring them doesn't help. I'm also not really sorry if that annoys some people who have been enjoying privilege and would rather have people be quiet about these problems. These people don't get to tell disadvantaged groups to shut up.

Your mention of "hate and prejudice" made zero sense to me. Supporting diversity does not contain hate or prejudice. The conversation had been civil until you showed up.

why don't you just get a life [...] I don't know what kind of mental issues you might have

Judging from your own tone and wording, it would seem that you are very angry, though. Since you insist on using ad hominem insults:

Infraction for flaming. Comments to PM.

 

[Awesome Possum]

And we have no idea who named her Michael etc. But the name is a direct reference to gender norms, and the Identity is moved to a sci-fi trope to keep it in-universe, but could speak to the same issues of being assumed to be one thing, even when you feel you are something else.

I'd imagine her parents named her and how do we not know that gender norms haven't changed? They've changed quite a bit in the past several decades. In the early 20th century, blue was traditionally associated with girls and pink was associated with boys. Names can change over time like Stacey, it's more commonly associated as a female name but just a few decades ago it was a male name.

 

[BillJ]

I thought it was just coincidence but maybe people are trying in some way to replicate that.

We're all just bullshitting because there still is a massive lack of information. Beats sitting around and staring at each other.

I thought it was mentioned in the series. Wasn't the fact he had joined Starfleet a point of contention when Sarek first appeared on the show?

It was a point of contention because Spock chose a career Sarek disapproved of. It is never mentioned that Spock was the first Vulcan. Heck, we learn the Starfleet starship Intrepid is manned by 400 Vulcans in "The Immunity Syndrome".

 

[Spider]

George from Dead Like Me, another Fuller show.

I loved that show.

 

[mdtauk]

I'd imagine her parents named her and how do we not know that gender norms haven't changed? They've changed quite a bit in the past several decades. In the early 20th century, blue was traditionally associated with girls and pink was associated with boys. Names can change over time like Stacey, it's more commonly associated as a female name but just a few decades ago it was a male name.

I hope that today's issues are no longer issues in the future. But I am talking about those watching today, and what they may get from watching the show, and how small decisions made by the writers and produces, could have a positive impact on people struggling.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I hope that today's issues are no longer issues in the future. But I am talking about those watching today, and what they may get from watching the show, and how small decisions made by the writers and produces, could have a positive impact on people struggling.

I just doubt her name has anything to do with trans people. Most likely it's a carryover from when Fuller was in charge since one of his things were having a female character with a traditionally male name. I'd love actual trans representation on Star Trek, but this isn't it and I hope that having a cis female character with a male name wouldn't be it. It's actually a bit insulting if it were.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I'm curious about what looks like an automated medical procedure going on around the time Sarek is talking about her tongue being too human. Could be an unrelated voice-over... or not. Either, either.

 

[Mudd]

There are women named Michael now. Let's move on.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I'm curious about what looks like an automated medical procedure going on around the time Sarek is talking about her tongue being too human. Could be an unrelated voice-over... or not. Either, either.

Organ transplant, she got a new tongue.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Hey, if nothing else a Star Trek show is provoking debate on social issues and norms. Isn't that how it supposed to be?

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

I worked with a straight white woman named Michael over 40 years ago. (Yeah, I'm that old.) Her name was an incidental curiosity and I never inquired as to its origin.

 

[BillJ]

The only people the name bothers is some straight white males who see insidious Hollywood plots around every corner.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

They should get Michael Learned to guest star.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

In the few seconds of footage in the trailer (which means nothing), she does act quite Vulcanish. And I'm quite liking this.

If I could choose, I'd say she's culturally Vulcan – either raised on Vulcan, or raised by Sarek by some circumstances (e.g. she lost her family, that was close to Sarek, who was ‘trying to understand human behaviour’). There's nothing in the trailer to contradict she's half-Vulcan – for all we know, ears may not always manifest themselves even when you're half-Vulcan, not be mention she could one-eighth Vulcan. But it would be way cooler if she's a Vulcan who's not of the Vulcan species, striving to be Vulcan in her childhood.

 

[Awesome Possum]

The only people the name bothers is some straight white males who see insidious Hollywood plots around every corner.

I'm stunned this is even a discussion.

 

[Captain Indecisive]

I don't really want to get into a conversation about race and acting diversity, being a fat white male, I have no experience to draw on.

But why not develop new characters that can be played, shaped, developed by minorities and people of colour, based on their experiences, rather than taking existing characters and re-interpreting them in a different way?

There would be outcry if white actors replace people of other genders and races, and also there would be a kind of dishonesty in ethnic actors replacing characters that have been defined by white actors.

Then there is the bigger issue of characters of colour being written by white writers who exist in a kind of bubble without the experiences they are trying to write about. We need diversity in the crew, writers, producers as much as the cast, so the experiences of those of colour, can be presented in an honest and nuanced way, and not making assumptions on how they should be portrayed.

Very well said - that second paragraph in particular.