thought about parallel universes

[Jadzia]

Consider setups such as light diffraction, or even particle diffraction, where interference patterns are observed that suggest waves rather than particles. We are told that the photon/particle travels on two different journey's simultaneously, and recombines probabilistically to produce the output pattern.

It is generally accepted that these simultaneous journeys take place in parallel universes, suggesting that particles can phase out of our own, and into others, and then come back again. So on the quantum level, these parallel universes are accessible with something as simple as the double-slits setup.

Now this must be happening all the time, everywhere, as a particle runs into some kind of obstacle particle and has to go around it one way or the other way, and take both journey's simultaneously.

Then i was thinking, where am I in all of this fuzz? Surely consciousness is no exception. Is my consciousness fully of this universe, or am I spread partly into parallel universes too. So that when I am aware of something, it is a process occurring mostly in this universe, but partly in other universes too.

I'm also thinking, of Heisenberg (sp) uncertainty and how we are unaware of both momentum and position with precision. Perhaps this is a consequence of our measuring devices (us, the observers) being spread across parallel universes -- in some of those the particle is over here, in others the particle is over there, so what we experience is a blur of these universe states.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this now; it was clearer in my head this morning. There were a few other thoughts I had related to this idea which seemed feasible.


Comments?

 

[bdb]

Reading your post, I just had a thought. If your consciousness is poping in and out of multiple universes (some of which are almost exactly like ours), could that be an explanation of the Deja Vu effect?

 

[SamuraiBlue]

You also have quantum tunnelling that makes semi-conductors work which cannot be explained through principle of classical mechanics.

 

[scotthm]

It is generally accepted that these simultaneous journeys take place in parallel universes

These parallel universes of yours would be strange indeed, seemingly populated only by undetectable energy.

---------------

 

[Deks]

I was postulating years ago that everything we imagine in our minds is actually happening/happened or going to happen in a parallel universe for example.
Limitless possibilities and outcomes (different imagined scenarios regardless how 'wild') that don't happen in one universe will happen/are happening or already took place in another universe.

I also theorized about the possibility that while we sleep and enter REM state, our conscience goes to our counterpart body in a parallel universe (which one though is a guess).
You know about the 'lucid dream' part. Well, by giving ourselves suggestions before bed time, we could be 'programming' our brains to take us into a reality where certain outcomes will actually happen.

Most of the time we are not aware that we are 'dreaming' which is why we have no control over the events that are happening ... it's as if we are only the observers.
But when we do become aware that we are dreaming ... well, that's where the hangup is.
We get to consciously be aware of everything and in numerous cases manipulate the world around us (for example flying and whatnot).
I reached another theory, that if we gain the ability to actually manipulate the 'dream world', we are merely in a reality where such a feat is more likely to occur compared to the one in which out conscience originated.

It's a theoretical possibility though ... hardly anything definitive.
Shaky as well ... but fun to ponder at.

 

[Timewalker]

So in another universe I got to join the Gilligan's Island characters at an outdoor Chinese food buffet in a beautiful park?

Or I was being chased through a forest by a witch, came upon a clearing and was promptly put before a firing squad... and instead of firing after aiming, the guy in charge pulled out a fiddle, the spectators started to do a square dance, and they invited me to join in? Oh, and the one in charge happened to be somebody I used to work with in the theatre many years ago?

Frankly, I don't want to imagine actually being in the universe that could produce those events.

(and I'm not going anywhere near the universe that produced the nightmare I had last night)

 

[Deks]

So in another universe I got to join the Gilligan's Island characters at an outdoor Chinese food buffet in a beautiful park?

Or I was being chased through a forest by a witch, came upon a clearing and was promptly put before a firing squad... and instead of firing after aiming, the guy in charge pulled out a fiddle, the spectators started to do a square dance, and they invited me to join in? Oh, and the one in charge happened to be somebody I used to work with in the theatre many years ago?

Frankly, I don't want to imagine actually being in the universe that could produce those events.

(and I'm not going anywhere near the universe that produced the nightmare I had last night)

The thing is though if the theory of parallel universes is actually correct, then I wouldn't be surprised if our 'dreams' are actually events happening to our counterparts and we get to experience those events for ourselves regardless of how 'unpleasant' they may be.
Because the theory is based on 'infinite realities/possibilities/parallel universes', whatever we imagine (or not) is actually happening in those other universes.
I attempted to produce 'lucid dreams' at will ... and I did it several times, but was unable to hold myself in the 'dream' even after performing some exercises that usually people do to keep themselves in it (I'll have to find something that works for me alone).
But there was always a feeling of being 'pushed backwards' when I was waking up from a lucid dream.
Which even more begs the question if what occurred in the dream to me was just imaginary or happened in another universe.

But is there any real connection between dreams and 'traveling' to parallel universes ... I honestly don't know.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is.
It's fun to experience those other possibilities for yourself.
If there is a connection, we act like 'sliders' (yes I mean the TV show) ... the only difference is we don't go there physically.

 

[Ronald Held]

According to the latest theories all of the universes are separate from each other.

 

[Timewalker]

Well, if I'd gone to the first place I described (the buffet) I might have gotten to actually eat something instead of just smelling it before I woke up.

 

[Deks]

According to the latest theories all of the universes are separate from each other.

Be more specific, what do you mean by 'separate'?

'Parallel universe' would be a more general term ... however, to be more specific the term implies universes that bear no connection to our own (for example, the laws of nature are nothing alike among countless other things) while 'alternate reality' would be a term used to describe a universe similar to our own but with subtle to extreme differences in history/experiences and whatnot.

 

[Jadzia]

I interpreted is as meaning the alternate realities are discrete rather than continuous, no doubt since the domain space of a quantum event is discrete (finite or countably infinite) rather than continuous??

 

[captainkirk]

You mean that Picard DIED in another universe?! And now Starfleet is going to clone him with his finger which they found in the Enterprise debris field?

 

[Ronald Held]

I meant each of the universe cannot influence or affect any of the others.

 

[Jadzia]

I meant each of the universe cannot influence or affect any of the others.

does that negate the possibility of consciousness spanning two universes?
After all, physics doesn't yet have a theory of consciousness. It cannot explain how willpower becomes a physical force, say when I want to move my fingers to type this message, what starts out as free will becomes a displacement of matter.

So there is a direct mind-controls-matter force somewhere.. even if it is something as subtle as influencing the probabilities of quantum events.

Consciousness may provide a greater linkage between universes than conventional forces.

In your opinion, as a physics-oriented person, what do you think the domain of influence of the mind is? Or are you a determinist, who believes that all events (including what we perceive as choice) are a chain of unavoidable consequences; the natural progression of physical laws?

Reading your post, I just had a thought. If your consciousness is poping in and out of multiple universes (some of which are almost exactly like ours), could that be an explanation of the Deja Vu effect?

Well bdb I suppose that is possible, but until we understand the nature of mind more fully, I think it would be premature to theorize on deja vu. But yes, it is certainly a possibility

 

[Deks]

I meant each of the universe cannot influence or affect any of the others.

As Jadzia already said, that doesn't necessarily include our brains and conscience given the fact we know little about them (not to mention the universe itself).

'Influence or affect any of the others.'
Be more specific in what manner the universes cannot influence or affect any of the others?
Are you suggesting that it negates the possibility of alternate realities (containing Earths and humans with different set of histories/choices, environmental events ... to name a few)?
If you meant it like that, I don't think that universes have to influence others in order for such a scenario to occur.
If some universes contain laws of nature similar to our own, there is a possibility they also have Earths and humans with different histories/choices, and various other circumstances ... while being completely separate and not interacting.
After all, similarities tend to occur even without external influence.

Of course I'm hardly an expert, and this is all theoretical to begin with.

 

[scotthm]

Be more specific in what manner the universes cannot influence or affect any of the others?

Any and all?

If you had two 'universes', 'Universe A' and 'Universe B', and they could 'perceive' or affect one another, then neither would be a universe, but they would each just be part of The Universe.

---------------

 

[Jadzia]

well i think this overlaps with semantics, and how we define the word "universe".

 

[Deks]

Be more specific in what manner the universes cannot influence or affect any of the others?

Any and all?

If you had two 'universes', 'Universe A' and 'Universe B', and they could 'perceive' or affect one another, then neither would be a universe, but they would each just be part of The Universe.

---------------

We are clearly talking about multiple universes as in self-contained realities that are not affecting each other (of which we don't have any real proof btw) in any way.
Therefore each universe is what it is ... a universe.
And an infinite number of them are called the 'multiverse' which by definition is a set of multiple possible universes (incl. our own) that comprise all of reality.

 

[scotthm]

well i think this overlaps with semantics, and how we define the word "universe".

I think if we study the origins of the word "universe" we will see that it encompasses everything that can be interacted with.

each universe is what it is ... a universe.
And an infinite number of them are called the 'multiverse' which by definition is a set of multiple possible universes (incl. our own) that comprise all of reality.

I'm aware of the terms and ideas you're talking about. I'm just saying that if these seperate 'universes' you're speaking of can affect one another then they are not seperate, and so are not universes unto themselves. So a universe cannot affect something outside of itself (if such a thing could be said to exist), or be affected by something not within it.

---------------

 

[Jadzia]

well i think this overlaps with semantics, and how we define the word "universe".

I think if we study the origins of the word "universe" we will see that it encompasses everything that can be interacted with.

words aren't used like that in science. They're redefined -- we don't make theories using words and look back years later at the etymology and decide that the theory says something different...

I think its clear what I intended when i used the word universe up above.