They Khan, but how?

[UFO]

See usual rumour caveats.

OK, here's the thing. Spock Prime knows about Khan so if he turns up for some reason and Spock doesn't tell anyone, me thinks that's going to be awkward.

If he does mention Khan that makes it harder for Khan to do his thing. The Federation finds him and everyone’s on alert. Good way to prove he's more intelligent than everyone else of course ... .

If someone else finds him, KingDaniel's Klingons for example, how would they know about him or where he is? Was Khan found in a location accessible to the Klingons or anyone else? Given that space is really big, was it a fluke anyone found him in the first place? He started out from Earth, but what course was he on? I may be wrong but I think someone suggested Nero might tell the Klingons but of course the Klingons never captured Nero. Could they find Khan by accident? Someone's going to have to find him unless this Khan is very different!

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I think if anything else Spock Prime should mention to dump him off somewhere other than Ceti Alpha V.

 

[UFO]

I think if anything else Spock Prime should mention to dump him off somewhere other than Ceti Alpha V.

Good idea although the Federation would now be involved and may want something more official (unless you mean jail). But if Khan is exiled like that he's stuck there, so unless he's pick up again by someone he couldn't achieve that much. I get the feeling the story will be about more than a remake of Space Seed though I suppose the end result could be similar or will they kill him off?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

What makes anyone think that Spock Prime will be immediately contacted and informed about events occurring anywhere in the galaxy other than where he happens to be - say, the hypothetical "New Vulcan?"

 

[UFO]

What makes anyone think that Spock Prime will be immediately contacted and informed about events occurring anywhere in the galaxy other than where he happens to be - say, the hypothetical "New Vulcan?"

I guess that would depend on how significant/dangerous the event is and whether they think Spock Prime is likely to know about it. But someone is bound to ask him about anything that could still occur despite Nero's incursion or he may mention it. My main interest is the mechanics of how a Khan type villain could become involved. If the rumours are true the writers have figured it out of course.

 

[Albertese]

.... I think someone suggested Nero might tell the Klingons but of course the Klingons never captured Nero. ...

He spent 25 years at Rure Penthe... captured by Klingons.

Of course, that was in deleted scenes, but it seems to me that some passing reference made it past the cutting room floor, but i don't remember specifically without re-watching the movie, which I'm not going to do just now.

Maybe later, though...

--Alex

 

[chardman]

Khan may only show end up in the story because Spock Prime has informed Starfleet of his existence. This may constitute part or all of Nimoy's alleged "cameo". Rather than not exploiting Khan's first-hand knowledge of history, perhaps Spock Prime recommends they intercept the Botany Bay, but not revive any of the crew until they are safely in a controlled environment, perhaps with each on an entirely different world, so that the chance of them ever acting as a group is eliminated, and allowing each to be studied individually. Spock Prime hopes that handling the genetic supermen in this way will eliminate the threat they presented in his timeline, yet still allow for us to benefit from studying them.

But anyone who has ever studied Greek Tragedy knows that attempting to alter fate rarely turns out well. Invariably, something will go terribly wrong, and a movie plot will spring into existence.

 

[F. King Daniel]

See usual rumour caveats.

OK, here's the thing. Spock Prime knows about Khan so if he turns up for some reason and Spock doesn't tell anyone, me thinks that's going to be awkward.

If he does mention Khan that makes it harder for Khan to do his thing. The Federation finds him and everyone’s on alert. Good way to prove he's more intelligent than everyone else of course ... .

If someone else finds him, KingDaniel's Klingons for example, how would they know about him or where he is? Was Khan found in a location accessible to the Klingons or anyone else? Given that space is really big, was it a fluke anyone found him in the first place? He started out from Earth, but what course was he on? I may be wrong but I think someone suggested Nero might tell the Klingons but of course the Klingons never captured Nero. Could they find Khan by accident? Someone's going to have to find him unless this Khan is very different!

Space is ridiculously big, but sci-fi writers have no sense of scale! The SS Bontany Bay will be like a remote lost down the back of the galactic sofa.

I mean, the Botany Bay being anywhere significantly far from the Sol system is a mistake to begin with. How far can a ship go, at 1996 space rocket speeds, in 200 years?


I wonder if the movie will open with the Enterprise hunting down the Botany Bay, as per Spock Prime's advice, only to find it empty?

 

[UFO]

.... I think someone suggested Nero might tell the Klingons but of course the Klingons never captured Nero. ...

He spent 25 years at Rure Penthe... captured by Klingons.

Of course, that was in deleted scenes, but it seems to me that some passing reference made it past the cutting room floor, but i don't remember specifically without re-watching the movie, which I'm not going to do just now.
...
--Alex

Well, even if we assume that is canon, I don't see the upside for Nero or the Empire of having the Klingons commanded by a superman. So if Nero told them he would warn them of how dangerous Khan is. Thus Khan has the same problem he would if (forewarned) humans found him. The Klingons would have nothing to gain anyway and just destroy his ship on site surely? Been there, done that!

Also Nero would only tell the Klingons under torture wouldn't he? Not voluntarily.

Khan may only show end up in the story because Spock Prime has informed Starfleet of his existence.

With the altered timeline, that seems like the only way Khan could be found again, and live to tell the tale. It's the most likely plot yet in my view.

Space is ridiculously big, but sci-fi writers have no sense of scale! The SS Bontany Bay will be like a remote lost down the back of the galactic sofa.

I wonder if the movie will open with the Enterprise hunting down the Botany Bay, as per Spock Prime's advice, only to find it empty?

Oh god, and then he appears unto his disciples? But seriously, re what I wrote above, who else would know and consider Khan an asset worth the risk?

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'd guess it'd be someone's fluke find. An odd human ship, filled with frozen humans.... the Klingons or whoever thaw a few to learn their mission.....

IIRC, the Klingons did the long-term stasis mission themselves in Next Gen's "The Emissary"

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Once some finds the sleeper ship for the first time (and I have a feeling it will NOT be the Enterprise, or maybe not even the federation), what can Spock Prime tell them besides:

"He's a dangerous man",
and
"If you catch him, don't exile him to Ceti Alpha V"

The initial set-up of the story might be similar to the initial set-up in Space Seed, with some ship (Klingons, maybe?) stumbling upon the Botany Bay with its 'cargo' asleep for 200+ years, but at that point, the story can take a totally different direction than Space Seed, and I don't see how Spock Prime's knowledge of Khan could offer much (besides a few specific psychological insights).

 

[Procutus]

Plus, most of the above suppositions are working on the idea that Starfleet is aware of Old Spock and where he's from, or that Old Spock reveals himself and then you have the whole boondoogle of his knowledge of what's to come for the next century, and the morality of changing certain events. Do we really know that Old Spock's identity is known to anyone other than Young Kirk, nuSpock and Scotty?

 

[F. King Daniel]

You think they'd just take any old Vulcan's word on where to set up the new Vulcan colony? Or let anyone into the academy to watch Kirk's promotion?

As he said in the hangar, "There are so few Vulcans left...."

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

But someone is bound to ask him about anything that could still occur despite Nero's incursion or he may mention it.

Hardly. Big universe - how many people even know that Spock Prime is in it?

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I think if anything else Spock Prime should mention to dump him off somewhere other than Ceti Alpha V.

Ceti Alpha VI, perhaps?

 

[UFO]

But someone is bound to ask him about anything that could still occur despite Nero's incursion or he may mention it.

Hardly. Big universe - how many people even know that Spock Prime is in it?

I think mass media all started when Gutenberg invented the printing press ... . But even if the they keep his part in events secrete (from the general public anyway), the right people in the Federation and Starfleet will still know. Of course it's not impossible that SpockP is doing speaking tours to help fund New Vulcan!

 

[BillJ]

But someone is bound to ask him about anything that could still occur despite Nero's incursion or he may mention it.

Hardly. Big universe - how many people even know that Spock Prime is in it?

I think mass media all started when Gutenberg invented the printing press ... . But even if the they keep his part in events secrete (from the general public anyway), the right people in the Federation and Starfleet will still know. Of course it's not impossible that SpockP is doing speaking tours to help fund New Vulcan!

Or he's taken on a new name.

 

[UFO]

... But even if the they keep his [Spock Prime's] part in events secrete (from the general public anyway), the right people in the Federation and Starfleet will still know. ...

Or he's taken on a new name.

If you mean he is deliberately hiding even from Federation/Star Fleet officials, that didn't appear to be part Legion's scenario. It would also seem to raise some rather contentious issues. But I guess Spock Prime could do that.