There is no Clara Oswald, there never was

[doubleohfive]

This bad Clara could be one of the other versions.

The Victorian Clara from the x-mas episode died, so what, another Victorian version?

Given the cybermen and the imagery, like cyberman's eyes shaped windows behind her, maybe reanimated Clara? Brought back by the cybermen.

What year was The Next Doctor set? Wasn't that Victorian London too?

The Tenth Doctor meets Jackson Lake on Christmas Eve 1851 in "The Next Doctor."

The Paternoster Gang and nearly all the scenes in that era featuring them are around 1892 (per "The Snowmen") so there's roughly 50 years difference. "The Crimson Horror" story is set a year later (or just after the events of "The Snowmen") in 1893.

In between, the Ninth Doctor takes Rose to Cardiff, 1869 (by mistake) in "The Unquiet Dead" and later, Ten takes Rose to Scotland in 1879, again by mistake, in "Tooth and Claw." The Eleventh Doctor takes Amy to meet Vincent Van Gogh in 1890 France in "Vincent and the Doctor."

There's nothing online listing a specific year for "Deep Breath" but everything I've just read (in my admittedly cursory search) says 'late Victorian London" so we can probably safely posit that it is set sometime after "The Crimson Horror."

 

[Tom]

If Clara isn't real... Who had all these future kids & grandkids with Danny?

The astronaut in 'Listen' only said an ancestor of his traveled in time. So for all we know it could have just been Danny that traveled in time, does not mean that Clara was is greet grandmother.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The travel route was genetically locked to Clara's DNA.

 

[Candlelight]

In a newly released official photo we now see Capaldi holding a 1968 version Cyberman head, with Cybermen coming down St Pauls steps. Homage to The Invasion or plot point perhaps?

 

[Doctorwhovian]

^Plus UNIT's in this one too. That story gets referenced a lot it seems even in the classic series.

From what looks like the plot though I'm starting to think the story might end up a bit too similar to Army Of Ghosts.

 

[Candlelight]

Anyone notice Clara stepping out of what looked like a cell to speak to the Cyberman?

 

[Doctorwhovian]

Maybe the Cybermean head is Handles Mark II or something

I'm kind of curious about the skeletal hand pushing the button.

There's also a possibility I think that this might be a possible version of River, with her somehow uploading souls into the library or something after their death (After all that's kind of what happened in those episodes if I recall). After all, River is sort of time lordish, maybe Missy is her "Valeyard" or something. Just speculation though.

 

[USS KG5]

So here is the "so who the f**k is Clara, who the f**k is Missy" thread eh?

Well here is who neither of them are, for starters: -

1. River
2. The flipping Rani
3. My left bollock in a dress.

I might be willing to buy these for Missy, but very unlikely...

1. The Master
2. The Valeyard
3. The Black Guardian

As frankly going back to the Great Intelligence just didn't work did it? Not that I didn't like Series 7, but he was a non-happening.

So, more likely identity for Missy...

1. Shes an older, screwed up version of a Clara copy, but seeing she "chose" Clara I doubt it would work.
2. She is death or God or something masquerading as either, who arranged Clara's existence (by shaking a tree) and meeting the Doctor (by giving her his number) after all, he was only looking for her because her fragments were already part of his life, wibbly wobbly etc.
3. She is something else that summarises the themes of this series, Robots, The Doctor being a jerk, Death, Soldiers, the secret guilt of Danny Pink.

Initial reviews are very positive, I'm looking forward to this weekend!

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

3. My left bollock in a dress.

No good without pictures

 

[Mr Awe]

Not sure about the god aspect. Afterall, Missy said she "choose" well, not created a good one. So, she didn't bring Clara into existence. Perhaps she choose another version of herself whom she thought would work well given that copy's own history?

Mr Awe

 

[Candlelight]

She's some aspect of Death. Some form of soul collector but for what reason I can't tell.

Unless she's collecting souls for Cybermen...

 

[Guy Gardener]

Remember, there were billions of Clara across space time to choose from... Each one as real as the next who could be splintered into all of the Clara's who fought the intelligence.

 

[Mr Awe]

I forget the series of novels (maybe someone knows), but it reminds me of a series where there was a time war and the strategy was that just before someone would die they'd be rescued by one side. The person would be offered a chance to live but they'd have to fight for that side.

Subtract the time war aspect, I wonder if Missy recruits for the Cybermen by time traveling and acquiring people just before the moment they die? You can live but you have to be a Cyberman or Cyberwoman? Maybe that's how they get to "heaven". Kind of like what the Doctor did for Blue Journey.

Mr Awe

 

[tomalak301]

That line was the best part of last week's episode. It's made me think that Missy is the first incarnation of Clara, which would mean she's a Master or The Great Intelligence.

 

[Skellington]

There's always the possibility put forward by Christopher in a previous thread:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=7450033&postcount=3

("Oswin", incidentally, appears to be Scandinavian for "God's friend" or maybe "divine friend" or "friend of a god".)

 

[SeerSGB]

There is no Clara...there is only Zuul.

 

[Australis]

That line is a Moffatt misdirect.

 

[Photoman15]

If there i s no Clara Oswald and never was, then why have I been suffering thru this last 1 and 1/2 seasons?

 

[ihno]

I usually turn off before the "next on doctor who", so I can enjoy it unspoiled. I still read the titles of the speculation threads on forums like these and comments in the other threads but anyhow...

To me this is a typical Moffat thing. At first he builds up a huge expectation (like with the "the doctor dies" thing) but there is hardly ever anything behind it and it turns out to be a dissapointment.

I think this a kind of cheating.

 

[The Wormhole]

^^Meh. At this point I know Moffat's tropes pretty well, so I knew right away that the whole "Clara Oswald has never existed" thing wouldn't lead anywhere significant.