Theiss' Early Designs for the TNG Uniforms

[Jedman67]

I don't know about the Cardassian uniforms, but the Klingon uniforms were that heavy because they were made with real leather. Which, as you might imagine, is heavy.

Only in the movies. On tng/ds9 they were made from rubber and vinyl with fake fur.
Maybe some of the hero costumes were leather (i.e. martok and gowron)

Sent from my HTC HTC6525LVW Using Ez Forum for Android

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

One of the articles I found had a chat interview with Blackman. In addition to the costumes being fitted to the actors, he also added muscle padding, shoulder padding and other enhancements to make the actors look fit and athletic. <br />
The women's costumes included built-in in seamless bras and probably had some breast padding as well. <br />
Also fun to note, the cardassian and klingon uniforms weighed about 30 lbs. Gives you some sympathy for marc alaimo and jg hertzler. <br />
<br />
Sent from my HTC HTC6525LVW Using Ez Forum for Android

<br />
<br />
Is the article online?

<br />
<br />
http://startrekauction.blogspot.com/2007/02/robert-blackman-interview.html?m=1

Sent from my HTC HTC6525LVW Using Ez Forum for Android

Thanks!

 

[Karzak]

Q: I am just wondering how you think up the strange clothes that Neelix has to wear? Some of the fabrics look very cool!!
marbeo

BB: Neelix comes from the same spot in my brain that Garak, Quark, Moogie and Zek. The fabrics are obviously exotic, and it takes some searching to find. There are many bald sofas around town.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Q: I am just wondering how you think up the strange clothes that Neelix has to wear? Some of the fabrics look very cool!!
marbeo

BB: Neelix comes from the same spot in my brain that Garak, Quark, Moogie and Zek. The fabrics are obviously exotic, and it takes some searching to find. There are many bald sofas around town.

"There are many bald sofas around town." Pretty much sums up Blackman's non-Starfleet designs!

To be honest, I never cared for Blackman's aesthetic. All muted-colored jumpsuits or multi-colored atrocities.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Oh, man -- what ugly designs. I wonder which person we have to hug for rejecting all those designs.

 

[Squiggy]

Oh, man -- what ugly designs. I wonder which person we have to hug for rejecting all those designs.

He died in the early 90s.

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

Theiss' early desings are interesting and very... 80s.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Theiss' early desings are interesting and very... 80s.

Seems like Theiss was trying to go as far out there and away from the original series look as he could.

Although Theiss' "Planet Earth" uniforms almost seem like they'd have been perfect as an updated Starfleet outfit.

 

[Jedman67]

Q: I am just wondering how you think up the strange clothes that Neelix has to wear? Some of the fabrics look very cool!!
marbeo

BB: Neelix comes from the same spot in my brain that Garak, Quark, Moogie and Zek. The fabrics are obviously exotic, and it takes some searching to find. There are many bald sofas around town.

"There are many bald sofas around town." Pretty much sums up Blackman's non-Starfleet designs!

To be honest, I never cared for Blackman's aesthetic. All muted-colored jumpsuits or multi-colored atrocities.

It depends. Most of the DS9 costuming was very well done; Voyager i never really cared for. Quark looks great in his outlandish ferengi costumes; neelix looks (and acts) like a slightly drunk hippy. I personally would have been in favor of neelix's death by strangulation in the first season.

 

[Jedman67]

I just watched BoB. The very last scene of part one, Beverly's uniform seems a drop too snug.

Sent from my HTC HTC6525LVW Using Ez Forum for Android

 

[Nerys Myk]

Theiss' early desings are interesting and very... 80s.

Seems like Theiss was trying to go as far out there and away from the original series look as he could.

Although Theiss' "Planet Earth" uniforms almost seem like they'd have been perfect as an updated Starfleet outfit.

Or the X-Men

 

[J.T.B.]

I never noticed it before, but even though the TNG dress uniforms didn't have rank pips till season two, there still appear to have been some distinctions of uniform trim. In "Lonely Among Us," it looks like three different trim braids are used: Thicker gold for Picard, thinner gold for Riker, and thinner silver for Yar.

This would be similar to Theiss's TOS dress uniforms, which (for males, at least) didn't have the standard rank.

Also the "spiraling" collar on Frakes's costume seems to have not been cooperating.

 

[Jedman67]

I've also noticed, that despite Blackman's reported interest in making fasteners invisible, there is a suspicious seam on the back of the later TNG uniforms which i always assumed to be a hidden zipper; and a darker seam on the DS9/Voyager uniforms on the front, aligned with the collar split, which could also be a candidate for a hidden zipper.
I can post screencaps later if needed.

 

[Karzak]

I've also noticed, that despite Blackman's reported interest in making fasteners invisible, there is a suspicious seam on the back of the later TNG uniforms which i always assumed to be a hidden zipper; and a darker seam on the DS9/Voyager uniforms on the front, aligned with the collar split, which could also be a candidate for a hidden zipper.
I can post screencaps later if needed.

Of course those were zippers. Where else would they go?

Re: TNG dress uniforms:

The first and second season versions were super long, too. Almost like dresses.

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x19/manhunt_hd_011.jpg

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x19/manhunt_hd_064.jpg


They got shortened for the 3rd-6th seasons, and again for the 7th season. The cut of the gold piping changed as well.

Season 4:
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/season-4/4x11/datas-day-hd-450.jpg

Season 5:
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/season-5/5x21/the-perfect-mate-hd-347.jpg

Season 6:
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s6/6x10/chainofcommandpartone068.jpg

Super shortened Season 7 version:
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s7/7x02/liasons012.jpg



Originally the pants for them were spandex, form fitting leggings almost (Lwaxana gets a gander at Picard's goods in "Manhunt"):

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x19/manhunt_hd_052.jpg


They switched to pants closer to what the standard uniforms used afterward.

Also important to note, but seemingly widely unknown -- this uniform (in it's last iteration before the Insurrection dress-whites) had a further modification, only barely visible in "You Are Cordially Invited...," adding the UFP logo belt to it that was later worn by various admirals in the FC-style uniforms. Voyager never utilized this modification, likely for the same reason they never switched to the FC-style uniforms.

You can (barely) see Bashir and O'Brien wearing the belts in this screenshot: http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/6x07/youarecordially264.jpg



Re: DS9 and Voyager Starfleet uniforms:

There were several versions of these as well. Originally we are led to believe they are jumpsuits/coveralls. The cut of the opening at the top changed as well, between seasons 2 and 3 of DS9. The season 1-2 version was tighter, and more pronounced, with the collar folding upward at its corners:

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x03/prologue008.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x03/prologue047.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x03/prologue164.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x03/prologue124.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x19/duet001.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x16/ifwisheswerehorses020.jpg


The season 3-5 versions were looser, for lack of a better term and seemingly more comfortable:

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x01/thesearch1_142.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x01/thesearch1_010.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x10/fascination_138.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x10/fascination_025.jpg

Note also, that the color of the undershirt/tee changes between seasons 2 and 3 from a lighter gray to (in some cases) a more mauve/lavender. This could also be due in some small way to lighting, I guess, but also clearly they switched the shirts as well.

Picard got a specially designed version for Generations, including (for some reason) a belt:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=56281&fullsize=1

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=56290&fullsize=1


By the time Voyager came around, the undershirts changed color again, and even the cut of the coveralls changed, and Janeway's pips in particular fasten to her collar in a much different way than they do with Picard, Sisko or any of the other Starfleet personnel, and the shoulder pads for all are much more pronounced.

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x01a/caretaker_0099.jpg

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x01a/caretaker_0177.jpg

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x01a/caretaker_0137.jpg

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x01a/caretaker_0209.jpg


Also, for some reason, Tuvok, Kim and the Doctor don't leave their uniform coveralls unzipped all the way, as we'd seen Sisko, Bashir, Dax, and O'Brien (and all other Starfleet personnel do previously):

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x19/rise017.jpg

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x01a/caretaker_0208.jpg

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x01a/caretaker_0416.jpg


Later in the series, we learn that the uniform is actually (supposedly?) a jacket and pants, not coveralls (or both):

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/5x13/gravity_099.jpg


Also revealed was that the undershirt/tee has a zip up the front collar:

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/5x13/gravity_164.jpg


And that there are alternate undershirts that can be worn:

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/5x13/gravity_181.jpg

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/5x13/gravity_357.jpg

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x12/macrocosm_137.jpg

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x12/macrocosm_143.jpg

 

[JoeZhang]

In a TOS thread, the early TNG uniforms came up in the discussion:

Have you seen some of Thesis's early TNG uniform designs?

http://ottens.co.uk/forgottentrek/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/William-Ware-Theiss-uniform-design1.png

Something familar about that outfit...

 

[Squiggy]

I never noticed it before, but even though the TNG dress uniforms didn't have rank pips till season two, there still appear to have been some distinctions of uniform trim. In "Lonely Among Us," it looks like three different trim braids are used: Thicker gold for Picard, thinner gold for Riker, and thinner silver for Yar.

Q appeared in what would have been an Admiral's dress uniform too...

 

[J.T.B.]

The first and second season versions were super long, too. Almost like dresses.

Pretty long in Season 3, too ("Sarek"), but the leggings have been ditched:

I think they were supposed to remind us of frock coats, the naval officer's standard attire in the second half of the 19th century:

Q appeared in what would have been an Admiral's dress uniform too...

Yeah I was not sure if that was real or if Q made it up. That edge trim sure looks like it would fit right in with odds and ends from the TOS wardrobe department.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Yeah I was not sure if that was real or if Q made it up.

Hardly a definitive argument, I know, but my read on Q's character is that he would prefer to mock Picard and Starfleet by donning the actual uniform of an admiral than by synthesizing his own obviously counterfeit costume. The latter would be an admission of illegitimacy that doesn't fit Q's pattern as I see it.

That edge trim sure looks like it would fit right in with odds and ends from the TOS wardrobe department.

That said, I always agreed with this. The uniform itself looks at odds with the other TNG designs. There's just simply an excessive amount of gold trim there.

Q appeared in what would have been an Admiral's dress uniform too...

 

[MakeshiftPython]

I like that the costume designers could never settle on an admiral uniform for TNG. They kept changing up to season six.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I like that the costume designers could never settle on an admiral uniform for TNG. They kept changing up to season six.

I really liked the first season Admiral's uniforms with the asymmetrical cut that Theiss was so fond of (see Captain Kirk's green wrap as an example).