TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

[Joel_Kirk]

Terra Nova (*)

TRAVIS: All these years wondering about that colony. I never thought I'd become part of their history.
ARCHER: Tell you what, Travis. Why don't you put together the report for Starfleet. If I'm not mistaken, it'll be headline news back home.
TUCKER: The Terra Nova puzzle, solved at last, as told by Ensign Travis Mayweather.
TRAVIS: Thank you, sir.

Yes, I'm sure that's why he signed on to become a pilot, because of the glorious paperwork. And what the hell is he doing eating with the Big Three anyway? He doesn't normally eat with them, and it's not like as if he actually did something in the story to warrant him being there. Is this some Affirmative Action requirement that Travis eat with them just once?

I'll give Archer a pass on the redshirt thing because in all the dangerous situations he put himself into I can justify having a captain involved rather than a lowly ensign. But today we learned the name of Phlox's species, so I'll add them to the counter.

Disappearing Aliens: 4

I guess Travis is a damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't. Since he is part of the senior crew, I would think Archer would like him to sit in every now and then....not due to his skin color, ethnicity, etc...

First, according to you, black people are sexual deviants, and now they're on a Starfleet ship due to affirmative action. (I hate to see what Hoshi Sato is on the ship for...)

Getting a little borderline racist, (or at least offensive) aren't we?

I'm going to have to watch your comments....Mr. TheGodBen...

***

With that said, for what it was, I enjoyed 'Unexpected' and 'Terra Nova'....It seems like these early episodes actually did have involvement from all members of the crew....

I would caution you, my friend. All ethnicities, all races, genders are reading this board; I suggest you be a bit more careful on what and how you post in the future.

Of course, offline, in the privacy of your domain, you can think anything you want...

 

[TheGodBen]

How did Precious Cargo get Disappearing Aliens? I'll admit its bad, but weren't the aliens the same ones in TNG's "The Perfect Mate"?

The criminal aliens were new, at least according to Memory Alpha.

Also, The Catwalk has it's flaws, but one thing it is not is the same as a TNG episode.

I don't know, I still think this was one of those episodes where it could easily have been a TNG episode, although it was a borderline case. It came down to this; if this had been an episode of Voyager would I have marked it down? The answer was yes, so in order to be fair to Voyager I marked down The Catwalk.

The thought of a Star Trek episode revolving around a space phenomenon that's laughably impossible scientifically shocks me to my very core!

Let's certainly not judge it as drama.

I did judge it as a drama, did you not notice that I heavily criticised the final 15 minutes? The episode scored a 6, one point was deducted for being TNG, the other point was deducted for how absurd the plot-device was.

I guess Travis is a damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't. Since he is part of the senior crew, I would think Archer would like him to sit in every now and then....not due to his skin color, ethnicity, etc...

First, according to you, black people are sexual deviants, and now they're on a Starfleet ship due to affirmative action. (I hate to see what Hoshi Sato is on the ship for...)

Getting a little borderline racist, (or at least offensive) aren't we?

I'm going to have to watch your comments....Mr. TheGodBen...

You can read my comments in one of two ways:
1) I'm a little disturbed that Travis is treated as a token black character while the 5 white actors get most of the work, and I found it worrying that on one of the very few occasions where they tried to give him a personality he makes a sexual harassment joke.
2) I believe that white people are genetically superior to black people and the best way to solve the race issue is through burning crosses outside the houses of black people.

Hmm, which is more likely...

But more importantly than that:

First, according to you, black people are sexual deviants, and now they're on a Starfleet ship due to affirmative action.

The affirmative action joke came a good month before the sexual deviant joke. How am I supposed to take criticism seriously when you display a lack of understanding about a simple concept like time?

I would caution you, my friend. All ethnicities, all races, genders are reading this board; I suggest you be a bit more careful on what and how you post in the future.

Since that joke there has been an extra thousand views to this thread by people of all ethnicities, all races and genders. You are the first person to comment on it.

Of course, offline, in the privacy of your domain, you can think anything you want...

Excellent, tonight I shall think about Linda Park covered in honey...


Dawn (*)

I never saw Enemy Mine, but even I knew this episode was a copy of it when it first aired. It also copies Arena, The Enemy, Darmok, The Ascent, Partuition... Every Trek series has done a version of this episode at some point, and this is the most derivative and uninteresting of them all. Two enemies trapped together who must learn to work with one another in order to survive and escape. Hell, Precious Cargo did exactly that story only a few weeks before, but with extra nookie.

I don't have much to say about this episode because very little original material happens. I've seen this all before, except better.

Disappearing Aliens: 14
Nipples Ahoy!: 10

 

[Joel_Kirk]

How did Precious Cargo get Disappearing Aliens? I'll admit its bad, but weren't the aliens the same ones in TNG's "The Perfect Mate"?

The criminal aliens were new, at least according to Memory Alpha.

Also, The Catwalk has it's flaws, but one thing it is not is the same as a TNG episode.

I don't know, I still think this was one of those episodes where it could easily have been a TNG episode, although it was a borderline case. It came down to this; if this had been an episode of Voyager would I have marked it down? The answer was yes, so in order to be fair to Voyager I marked down The Catwalk.


I did judge it as a drama, did you not notice that I heavily criticised the final 15 minutes? The episode scored a 6, one point was deducted for being TNG, the other point was deducted for how absurd the plot-device was.


You can read my comments in one of two ways:
1) I'm a little disturbed that Travis is treated as a token black character while the 5 white actors get most of the work, and I found it worrying that on one of the very few occasions where they tried to give him a personality he makes a sexual harassment joke.
2) I believe that white people are genetically superior to black people and the best way to solve the race issue is through burning crosses outside the houses of black people.

Hmm, which is more likely...

But more importantly than that:
The affirmative action joke came a good month before the sexual deviant joke. How am I supposed to take criticism seriously when you display a lack of understanding about a simple concept like time?

Well, I'm catching it now; I wasn't amused; and I'll definitely be reading your reviews in the future...

Now, if you're trying to make a comment on how he--Travis-- is being represented opposite the five white actors (Bakula, Trineer, Blalock, Billingsley, and Keating) fair enough....you might want to type out your reviews so it denotes such. (Humans can't read sarcasm, or facetiousness over the internet).

Moving on...

Since that joke there has been an extra thousand views to this thread by people of all ethnicities, all races and genders. You are the first person to comment on it.

I don't see nothing wrong with that. If you post reviews, there are going to be people who disagree with you on something you said or a viewpoint; it doesn't matter whether it's today or a month from now.

With all that said, I do look forward to the rest of your reviews...

 

[SRFX]

...you might want to type out your reviews so it denotes such. (Humans can't read sarcasm, or facetiousness over the internet).

I can't speak for others on the board, but i find TheGodBen pretty easy to read. I've never read anything of his that could be construed as literally bigoted, racist or intolerant.

And as GodBen said, you are the first person to have said anything about it in two long running threads...

 

[TheGodBen]

Well, I'm catching it now; I wasn't amused; and I'll definitely be reading your reviews in the future...

Now, if you're trying to make a comment on how he--Travis-- is being represented opposite the five white actors (Bakula, Trineer, Blalock, Billingsley, and Keating) fair enough....you might want to type out your reviews so it denotes such. (Humans can't read sarcasm, or facetiousness over the internet).

I'm not a machine, I can't be expected to be all things for all people, I can only try to be true to myself. I make provocative comments that might be considered racist, I do this online and in my everyday life, and I make these comments because I'm so opposed to racism that it is impossible to imagine that I could ever possibly mean them. My legions upon legions of fans (4 or 5 people who read the thread whenever they pass through the forum) should know that I'm really commenting on how badly treated the Mayweather character is, and how this is especially pronounced considering he is the token black guy.

I don't see nothing wrong with that. If you post reviews, there are going to be people who disagree with you on something you said or a viewpoint; it doesn't matter whether it's today or a month from now.

People disagree with me all the time, and I don't mind that at all so long as they keep personal insults out of it and respect that my opinions are just that, opinions. I'm entitled to have my opinions, other people are entitled to have their opinions, and eventually all this tolerance and respect for one another will turn us into hippies and we'll have a drug-fueled orgy in a forest.

(Bring your own drugs, I'm not paying for everybody's.)

I can't speak for others on the board, but i find TheGodBen pretty easy to read.

Because I have such a simple mind, right?

 

[Joel_Kirk]

...you might want to type out your reviews so it denotes such. (Humans can't read sarcasm, or facetiousness over the internet).

I can't speak for others on the board, but i find TheGodBen pretty easy to read. I've never read anything of his that could be construed as literally bigoted, racist or intolerant.

And as GodBen said, you are the first person to have said anything about it in two long running threads...

I've already answered this so I'm not going to go through a long answer. I will add this:

I'm going to assume you are white; I am black, and I will have gone through different circumstances than you. Obviously, what I may find offensive, you will not...



To repeat myself: Yes, everyone is going to have different opinions...

Whether or not I'm the first, second, third person to come forth and agree or disagree or call someone on their viewpoints...or to ask questions for clarity...

...That comes with posting on a public board.

And unless I'm going senile, there is one thread going on.

Let's get back to reviewing episodes, shall we?

 

[Glacial]

...you might want to type out your reviews so it denotes such. (Humans can't read sarcasm, or facetiousness over the internet).

I dunno, it came across just fine to me, too -- I think you might be on your own on this one.

Also, unless you're in the habit of attributing racism to everything you see, I don't think you're ever going to see much coming from a bunch of Star Trek fans

 

[Joel_Kirk]

...you might want to type out your reviews so it denotes such. (Humans can't read sarcasm, or facetiousness over the internet).

I dunno, it came across just fine to me, too -- I think you might be on your own on this one.

I am...since I'm the one who commented on the post.

Also, unless you're in the habit of attributing racism to everything you see, I don't think you're ever going to see much coming from a bunch of Star Trek fans

No, I'm in the habit of questioning things I don't understand the first time around....

And being a Trek fan doesn't set one apart from the fandom of any other franchise; if you hold another opinion...that is your right, of course.

 

[Glacial]

And being a Trek fan doesn't set one apart from the fandom of any other franchise; if you hold another opinion...that is your right, of course.

Bah! You can't be a fan of a series that beats us over the head with tolerance as long and consistently as Trek has without picking it up as you watch

Of course, there's also the absolute, total absence of any Jewish characters in Roddenberry's vision of the future. Not one Lt. Goldstein or Cpt. Silverman in any of the series or movies. So, in the future mankind is united in brotherhood and peace, having totally eliminated war, poverty, and disease, and everyone works solely to better themselves and humanity, and there are no Jews anywhere. Subtle!

 

[SRFX]

...you might want to type out your reviews so it denotes such. (Humans can't read sarcasm, or facetiousness over the internet).

I can't speak for others on the board, but i find TheGodBen pretty easy to read. I've never read anything of his that could be construed as literally bigoted, racist or intolerant.

And as GodBen said, you are the first person to have said anything about it in two long running threads...

I've already answered this so I'm not going to go through a long answer. I will add this:

I'm going to assume you are white; I am black, and I will have gone through different circumstances than you. Obviously, what I may find offensive, you will not...

Yeah, I am white (well, white-enough anyway). But I am part of a marginalised social minority so I am no stranger to thoughtless verbal slights and bigotry.

But I can usually tell when someone is just joking around or being satirical, and when someone is actually trying to be malicious or hurtful, or even just thoughtless/ignorant. I have never once found GodBen to be of the latter.

Because I have such a simple mind, right?

Haha maybe. Or maybe Irishmen and Australians are on a similar wavelength when compared to Americans?

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Getting a little borderline racist, (or at least offensive) aren't we?

Desist, please. Confrontational behavior and productive discussion don't mix well.

This isn't the first dust-up for this thread, but I strongly recommend to all of you that it be the last. Disagree all you want, but kindly keep it civil. If anyone has an issue with a post, the NM button is your friend. Please don't clog up the thread trying to duke it out amongst yourselves.

I make provocative comments that might be considered racist, I do this online and in my everyday life, and I make these comments because I'm so opposed to racism that it is impossible to imagine that I could ever possibly mean them.

Bully for you. Alas, for the folks who do not know you personally, your provocative comments -- and yes, your jokes -- can be misinterpreted. Especially on the internet, where readers do not have the advantage of facial expressions, body language, or vocal inflection to help them interpret the tone of your posts.

Sadly, there are still plenty of people out there who would say some of the stuff you've said, and mean every word. You might want to keep that in mind.

Carry on.

 

[bluedana]

...you might want to type out your reviews so it denotes such. (Humans can't read sarcasm, or facetiousness over the internet).

I dunno, it came across just fine to me, too -- I think you might be on your own on this one. [snip]

As in real life, sometimes the response to a comment you feel is offensive is ignoring it and moving on rather than engaging. So I don't think you can assume that just because there isn't a chorus of protesting posts that nobody else is offended. Many times, I struggle to keep my hands off the keyboard rather than respond to something that I think crosses the line. Silence does not equal agreement.

 

[TheGodBen]

I'm going to assume you are white; I am black, and I will have gone through different circumstances than you. Obviously, what I may find offensive, you will not...

Hmm, I don't see myself as white, I'd identify myself as Irish. And you are right, we have gone through different circumstances, black people only make up 1% of the population here, most of our minorities are people who come from other European countries. We don't have the legacy that the US has with racism against black people, most of our racism is directed against the English for killing a whole bunch of us in the past, and the Polish people who come over here and takk ur jerbs! So I apologise if you took offense from what I said and I hope you can see that it was based out of the anger I feel about how poorly developed Travis is as a character. No hard feelings, eh?

At the same time, you never had to experience Fair Haven and Spirit Folk from my perspective, that far exceeds anything that black people have to face.

Haha maybe. Or maybe Irishmen and Australians are on a similar wavelength when compared to Americans?

You mean because we're constantly drunk? Hmm, it could be...

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Getting a little borderline racist, (or at least offensive) aren't we?

Desist, please. Confrontational behavior and productive discussion don't mix well.

This isn't the first dust-up for this thread, but I strongly recommend to all of you that it be the last. Disagree all you want, but kindly keep it civil. If anyone has an issue with a post, the NM button is your friend. Please don't clog up the thread trying to duke it out amongst yourselves.

Will do, HopefulRomantic...

And, I agree: Confrontation behavior and productive discussion don't mix well...

I'll keep in mind the NM button...

 

[Praetor]

[No hard feelings, eh?

"Eh"?

Mein Gott, this whole time you've had us believe you were a leprechaun, you're actually a Canuck?! Don't wait for the translation, answer me now!!

(You'd better be preparing a new review as I type, mister. I didn't come out of hiding to not read your reviews!)

 

[TheGodBen]

Stigma (*½)

If you're writing an episode which is supposed to serve as an allegory for a woman who contracted HIV after being raped by a gay man, how do you have a comedic b-story where a woman attempts to force herself upon a man who is clearly made uncomfortable by her advances? I mean, if I saw a man making a woman uncomfortable with his advances, and even though he knew he was making her uncomfortable he upped the ante, I would be disgusted by his behaviour. So why am I expected to laugh when it is a woman doing it to a man? The idea of a human being innocent and confused about Denobulan matrimonial customs is fine, but this was the wrong way to do it in an episode about rape and AIDS.

Although I must admit that I didn't pick up on the allegory at the age of 17 and it had to be pointed out to me years later. The problem for me was that this episode was one step too far in the development of the Vulcan race, I'm okay with Enterprise redefining the Vulcans but this episode amounted to species assassination. I didn't pay any attention to the message about undesirable minorities being persecuted because I was too busy thinking how this episode messes up everything we know about the Vulcans. I was also thinking back to this:

T'POL: Mind meld?
TOLARIS: It's an ancient technique. It was abandoned centuries ago, but we've discovered that it can help us access our emotions.
T'POL: How does it work?
TOLARIS: I'd begin by creating a telepathic link. We would be able to share our memories, our thoughts. In essence, we would become one mind. It's quite an experience, but it is profoundly intimate. Are you prepared for that? If you'd like, we could try a more traditional form of guided meditation but it wouldn't be nearly as effective.
T'POL: Proceed.

Seems to me that T'Pol was willing to lie about what happened in order not to be punished for her "crimes", either that or B&B fucked up their continuity.

I'm going to award an extra point for the music in this episode, it helped make the horribly-forced allegory go down easier.


EDIT: What can I say, I'm just that fast.

Mein Gott, this whole time you've had us believe you were a leprechaun, you're actually a Canuck?! Don't wait for the translation, answer me now!!

I'm far too impolite to be Canadian.

 

[SRFX]

I actually quite like Stigma, even though it's allegory is irrelevant. The general perspective on HIV/AIDS today isn't like it was back in the 1980's. This episode had it's heart in the right place, it just didn't really need to be told in 2003.

This story is something that should've been a TNG episode, that aired in the late 80's. It would've been much more powerful, provoking and socially relevant back then.

But taking it as it is, I still like it, and although Trip/Phlox's wife's B-story felt a little out-of-place, I still liked it.

I guess I am a big fan of Phlox, the Denobulans and the way they do things.

 

[Praetor]

EDIT: What can I say, I'm just that fast.

Jeezum crow, you sure are.

Ah, "Stigma." You put the "hand" in "heavy-handed." As a gay man, I appreciate what ENT (and the rest of VIACOM) were trying to do for AIDS awareness, but it wasn't exactly a compelling hour of television, and then there was the matter of the mismatch B-plot.

It's probably ENT's most special "very special episode."

Mein Gott, this whole time you've had us believe you were a leprechaun, you're actually a Canuck?! Don't wait for the translation, answer me now!!

I'm far too impolite to be Canadian.

Not true. I've met several impolite Canadians.

 

[Glacial]

Not true. I've met several impolite Canadians.

I'm one of them!

Ya pointy-eared bastard!

 

[cylkoth]

Stigma (*½)

If you're writing an episode which is supposed to serve as an allegory for a woman who contracted HIV after being raped by a gay man, how do you have a comedic b-story where a woman attempts to force herself upon a man who is clearly made uncomfortable by her advances? I mean, if I saw a man making a woman uncomfortable with his advances, and even though he knew he was making her uncomfortable he upped the ante, I would be disgusted by his behaviour. So why am I expected to laugh when it is a woman doing it to a man? The idea of a human being innocent and confused about Denobulan matrimonial customs is fine, but this was the wrong way to do it in an episode about rape and AIDS.

Yeah, talk about yer major misstep...A very special AIDS allegory episode paired with...a sexual harassment B-story. A comic hilarity sexual harassment B-story. What were they thinking. With the Doctor condoning the harassment of his senior officer to boot, while snarling at the intolerance of the pouting Vulcans.