The younger Spock cannot afford to die saving the Enterprise!

[BlastHardcheese]

I was sitting in the bath this morning when I was hit by this horrible realisation. I'm talking about the events of The Wrath of Khan.

Now Abrams & Co may not even include the Khan story arc in the new universe, but considering its popularity with Trek fans, this may be included. If so, the younger Spock cannot put his Katra into McCoy with this hopes of being restored later. Vulcan is gone. Mount Seleya and T'Lar are gone (unless she was an unseen member of the Vulcan high council who was rescued). This means if Khan and the Genesis device make an appearance and events occur similar to the prime universe, younger Spock may die permanently.

There's one good resolution to this. If the older Spock lives long enough to reach that point in time which is a distinct possibility, he could join the enterprise crew fighting Khan. Older Spock could then leave his Katra with the younger Spock and die a second time repairing the ship's engines..

Or am I thinking just a little too much?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Even if Khan shows up, events will probably be very different. Who knows if there will even BE a Genesis project this time around.

 

[KingstonTrekker]

I was sitting in the bath this morning when I was hit by this horrible realisation. I'm talking about the events of The Wrath of Khan.

Now Abrams & Co may not even include the Khan story arc in the new universe, but considering its popularity with Trek fans, this may be included. If so, the younger Spock cannot put his Katra into McCoy with this hopes of being restored later. Vulcan is gone. Mount Seleya and T'Lar are gone (unless she was an unseen member of the Vulcan high council who was rescued). This means if Khan and the Genesis device make an appearance and events occur similar to the prime universe, younger Spock may die permanently.

There's one good resolution to this. If the older Spock lives long enough to reach that point in time which is a distinct possibility, he could join the enterprise crew fighting Khan. Older Spock could then leave his Katra with the younger Spock and die a second time repairing the ship's engines..

Or am I thinking just a little too much?

Not sure whether you are overthinking or underthinking here...

1) Other Vulcan elders were rescued.

2) The Abramsverse is an ALTERNATE reality --- anything can happen.

3) I for one strongly hope that the sequel(s) avoid ANY mention of Khan. Let's explore new frontiers -- otherwise, what was the point in creating a new reality???

More importantly...why were you thinking about Trek when you were in the bathtub??

 

[BlastHardcheese]

Even if Khan shows up, events will probably be very different. Who knows if there will even BE a Genesis project this time around.

Well wouldn't that be independent of the changes to Kirk and Spock's lives? I doubt Carol Marcus would give up her dream of creating life-giving planets from barren rocks just because of the unrelated events Nero caused. The only difference might be that she never meets and has a fling with Kirk, and never has a maverick son who used shortcuts to make Genesis work. Although Carol may have also agreed with David that protomatter was the right way to go.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Even if Khan shows up, events will probably be very different. Who knows if there will even BE a Genesis project this time around.

Could be Jim never knocked boots with Carol, so no David. No David, no proto-matter. No proto-matter, no Genesis.

 

[BlastHardcheese]

3) I for one strongly hope that the sequel(s) avoid ANY mention of Khan. Let's explore new frontiers -- otherwise, what was the point in creating a new reality???

It's not a completely new reality. Certain events should still happen, like V'ger heading for Earth. That was set into motion long before Nero showed up. And don't give me any BS like "its a new universe lol Vger doesnt have to happen!!!11". That's like saying if you went back in time and killed Hitler in 1934, that World War One would never happen.

And are you telling me that you don't want to see Chris Pine look up to the heavens and scream that single word which all of Trek is remembered for? It will be practically impossible for Abrams to ignore.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And don't give me any BS like "its a new universe lol Vger doesnt have to happen!!!11".

Don't be too sure...

Spoiler: Nero comic

Nero has already met V'Ger. I swear I am not making that up. He didn't destroy V'Ger, but AFAIK V'Ger is not heading for Earth any longer, because of Nero's interference.

 

[KirkSpockTOSFan]

Thats hard to say since now there is no Vulcan. However there were some survors from Vulcan, and I'm sure maybe one of the elders might have knowlodge of that ritual. Just because the planet Vulcan is gone doesnt mean the Vulcan ways are gone, they are still there. After all this is new reality so anything can happen, as Spock Prime says in the old movies/series "There are always possablites"

 

[BlastHardcheese]

Don't be too sure...

Spoiler: Nero comic

Nero has already met V'Ger. I swear I am not making that up. He didn't destroy V'Ger, but AFAIK V'Ger is not heading for Earth any longer, because of Nero's interference.

I hate you. I seriously hate you. I hate you and all your descendants who come after you.

 

[Sector 7]

And are you telling me that you don't want to see Chris Pine look up to the heavens and scream that single word which all of Trek is remembered for? It will be practically impossible for Abrams to ignore.

No, I do not want to see Pine rehashing that line. Yes, I hope Abrams will choose to cover NEW adventures and ignore the temptation to rehash Khan.

 

[BlastHardcheese]

No, I do not want to see Pine rehashing that line. Yes, I hope Abrams will choose to cover NEW adventures and ignore the temptation to rehash Khan.

Then you may just be completely out of luck.

 

[Sector 7]

No, I do not want to see Pine rehashing that line. Yes, I hope Abrams will choose to cover NEW adventures and ignore the temptation to rehash Khan.

Then you may just be completely out of luck.

Or someone may just be blowing smoke up your... backside. Until they prevent any idiot from posting to IMDB, it means nothing.

 

[BlastHardcheese]

No, I do not want to see Pine rehashing that line. Yes, I hope Abrams will choose to cover NEW adventures and ignore the temptation to rehash Khan.

Then you may just be completely out of luck.

Or someone may just be blowing smoke up your... backside. Until they prevent any idiot from posting to IMDB, it means nothing.

True, but the rumor's been flying around for a while that Khan will be in the next film. I can only hope it's true and they get him right.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Don't be too sure...

Spoiler: Nero comic

Nero has already met V'Ger. I swear I am not making that up. He didn't destroy V'Ger, but AFAIK V'Ger is not heading for Earth any longer, because of Nero's interference.

I hate you. I seriously hate you. I hate you and all your descendants who come after you.

Don't look at me, even I couldn't come up with something like that. Linky

 

[BlastHardcheese]

Don't be too sure...

Spoiler: Nero comic

Nero has already met V'Ger. I swear I am not making that up. He didn't destroy V'Ger, but AFAIK V'Ger is not heading for Earth any longer, because of Nero's interference.

I hate you. I seriously hate you. I hate you and all your descendants who come after you.

Don't look at me, even I couldn't come up with something like that. Linky

Whoever came up with that needs to have his face set on fire and then have the fire be put out with a hammer.

Edit: Thank god comic books are not trek canon and don't count.

 

[KingstonTrekker]

Then you may just be completely out of luck.

Or someone may just be blowing smoke up your... backside. Until they prevent any idiot from posting to IMDB, it means nothing.

True, but the rumor's been flying around for a while that Khan will be in the next film. I can only hope it's true and they get him right.

Well I guess your false hopes will give you something else to think about when you are next in the bathtub

 

[M'Sharak]

No, I do not want to see Pine rehashing that line. Yes, I hope Abrams will choose to cover NEW adventures and ignore the temptation to rehash Khan.

Then you may just be completely out of luck.

As I said the last time this came around, I wouldn't be at all averse to seeing Carbonell in a Trek movie; I like what I've seen of him elsewhere. I just don't want to see him (or anyone else) playing Khan (never mind the sort of contortions which would be required to again put Spock in the role of dying to save the ship in the aftermath of an attack by a revenge-crazed Khan. I'm not one to be easily put off new Trek by anything, but that just might be enough to do it.)

As far as Pine rehashing the line goes, I'm still cringing from when Shatner did it, all those years ago; it needs revisiting even less than Khan does, which is (in my opinion) not at all.

 

[Franklin]

Now Abrams & Co may not even include the Khan story arc in the new universe, but considering its popularity with Trek fans, this may be included. If so, the younger Spock cannot put his Katra into McCoy with this hopes of being restored later. Vulcan is gone. Mount Seleya and T'Lar are gone (unless she was an unseen member of the Vulcan high council who was rescued). This means if Khan and the Genesis device make an appearance and events occur similar to the prime universe, younger Spock may die permanently.

If the writers do need T'Lar (or someone with similar skills) in the next movie, then she or that other unseen Vulcan was one of those saved in ST09. It's that simple.
As far as Mt. Seleya being gone goes, I'm sure the Vulcans could do whatever voodoo they do just as effectively on the new colony. It's unlikely Mt. Seleya had any unique paranormal or other powers that lent themselves to the occasion. It was just the traditional setting of the ceremony.

[But please, can we stop talking about the chances of Khan being in the next movie? Pu-leeeze? Pretty please? Whenever the subject comes up on these boards, my colon tightens up a bit at the thought of it. The prospect of it even puts me off enough to make me think of, now what's the word? I've seen it used on these boards before. Oh, yes. BOYCOTT! ]

 

[shapeshifter]

I'd prefer Khans Sleeper Ship simply NOT be encountered in the Nuverse.

If the Khan story must occur in the Nuverse then I hope and pray it is told in novels (I nominate Greg Cox) or comics.

 

[Desert Kris]

I didn't think the actual place of Mount Seleya is necessarily required, just the powers and knowledge of Vulcan Elders. The priestess of Logic from the first ST movie might arguably be able to pull off Fal Tor Pan, if whoever is writing the story needs her to.

As for Khan, I agree with the sentiment that it's too early to get to that story element. Give it enough time, though, and the fans and writers will get a sense of how this new version of history will be used. The fun of a retelling is how a story can be told in a new way. The newer Battlestar Galactica show is a great example, but there are plenty of other stories that have been retold, to show the way: Robin Hood, King Arthur of Camelot, Dracula, the origin of Superman. A writer could take Khan in a completely new direction. My favorite idea would be to see Khan actually manage to establish a new empire of Supermen, and see how the Federation has to deal with a political organization with resources, power, ships, and and a conquering, imperial drive. That way we could see Khan as what his character is meant to be, a ruling dictator. In this way, we could see the promise of "Space Seed", played out in a different way, as the end of the episode suggested.