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Spoilers The Witchfinders grade and discussion thread

How do you rate The Witchfinders?

  • Total voters
    72
Jax said:
Awful episode and worst of Jodie's era IMO. Everything seemed half baked and the ending was rushed as soon as the Aliens appeared. The Doctor and her team are fun characters but they deserve better writing than this.

Also why is the King of England wandering around villages? He's the bloody King.
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Even "The Ghost Monument" was a better episode. Actually, it was once you remove some of the more atrocious dialogue. There was still a fair amount to like and it felt like there was a solid premise beneath it all. The spider episode was the previous low-of-all-low points, hollow and unfocused. Never mind the season can't make up its mind whether or not the latest incarnation has had female bodies before.

And, of course, King James - the bi guy with 9 kids (so he didn't mind women, who didn't think he was icky for liking men as well) who allowed a Bible translation with his name on it to be made. Then again, it explains why Leviticus 20:13 is more open-ended, suggesting it's okay to fib to women but not to other men - as opposed to the old standby translation of having forms of intercourse, such as in the New International Version. Then again, King James' version of Ezekiel 23:20 is the opposite way around, very odd but very true! :D In other words, nobody was there back in the day and documentation is spotty. Turning to an ostensibly sci-fi show for a history lesson won't impress the teacher as they only care what's in their book. Especially when men were executed as witches and while I had the sense to turn the TV to another channel, word is the episode decided only women were tried as witches. At least the executioner was a lady and not a man and apparently had manifested inside her an alien cootie that had escaped a tree that was cut down. The Morax was an interesting idea... pity so much of the episode surrounding it was so stupid. (By the way, many diseases had no cures back then. Maybe the new year's special will focus on how current medications are losing their efficacy because people are far more stupid nowadays... oh, wait, the target audience of 0-3 won't have a clue either way, they just think her outfit is pwetty.)
 
Dimesdan said:
I thought it was brilliant. I am really enjoying this series and Jodie is just ace.
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She was great, until she had to say "'scuse me for a minute" while she walked back several feet to muddle around to find the very thing she obviously didn't need at the time: the psychic paper. That's when the scene set the whole season to a new laughable (in a bad way) low point. Also surprised nobody had stopped her as the first line of thought from any guard would likely be "we don't know her, she's probably getting a weapon because Satan's fiddling with her too, let's just stand here instead so she can do whatever because the person writing us is being convenient" just like it wouldn't in real life. And that's not even 5 minutes in...

The episode was less than the sum of its parts, though the good parts - all too brief and fleeting - are still worthy of mention but the clunker material was incredibly off-putting. Never mind the sonic screwdriver...
 
Continues to perpetuate the myth that James I was a buffoon when in reality he was not just one of the smartest monarchs the UK has ever had but an incredibly complex man who was constantly persecuted throughout his life.
 
I quite enjoyed this episode. Well, like other people, it was odd in the final act when we knew aliens were behind it all again. Hmm.

I enjoyed this one more than last week's, and I've come to the conclusion that I'm enjoying this series more when they go into the past or present, than when they're in the future.

Alan Cumming was a lot of fun. In an alternate timeline, he was The Doctor at some point. :techman:
 
Was the Doctor Knighted in the Crusaders?

I think Ian Chesterson was, but it's been 35 years since I read the novelization.
 
Knighted and Banished in the same breath?

Rose Tyler is surely a banned name?

To Torchwood.

Until Jack fudged the reports.
 
Abi Smith said:
Continues to perpetuate the myth that James I was a buffoon when in reality he was not just one of the smartest monarchs the UK has ever had but an incredibly complex man who was constantly persecuted throughout his life.
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Maybe it's because he's following in Elizabeth's shadow? Even if he's above average for his intelligence, he's going to look weak next to her, right?

I remember in English literature studies how my teacher showed us how Shakespeare's plays have a distinct change when from when he was writing for Elizabeth compared to when he was writing for James, and how his later plays are very clearly "dumbed down" to appease a lesser intelligent king. But sort of James might not be less intelligent than your average person, but just less than Elizabeth, you know what I mean? Sort of like how people think Napoleon was short because he was usually painted compared to his body guards.
 
Marynator said:
Maybe it's because he's following in Elizabeth's shadow? Even if he's above average for his intelligence, he's going to look weak next to her, right?

I remember in English literature studies how my teacher showed us how Shakespeare's plays have a distinct change when from when he was writing for Elizabeth compared to when he was writing for James, and how his later plays are very clearly "dumbed down" to appease a lesser intelligent king. But sort of James might not be less intelligent than your average person, but just less than Elizabeth, you know what I mean? Sort of like how people think Napoleon was short because he was usually painted compared to his body guards.
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I think that's probably almost entirely incorrect.
 
A below average episode that was really obnoxious (The Doctor was right, this would have been better with a male Doctor, and to be fair this is the only story this season where this is true), but Alan Cumming pulls this episode up to being an average episode by pure force of being the only charismatic and entertaining actor to appear on this show all season (exposing even more how much the regular cast are just pathetic charisma vacuums, even though I think Whitaker can be better then that she certainly hasn't had the chance to be better).

You know, I generally like real world or message stuff in Sci Fi, and laugh at assholes who complain about it. Sci Fi addressing current issues is part of the genre, and done well can be very good. But for fucks sake, can we maybe just have an adventure every so often? Or, failing that, can Chibnail actually do social issue episodes competently? I mean, Rosa was just "Racism is bad, and here is the stupidest story in the world to illustrate that". Do a message episode in a way that is both well written and has the message enhance the story, not just be really fucking obvious. Classic Who was more subtle then this season. Hell, Star Trek's Let This Be Your Last Battlefield was more subtle then this season, and had better writing and was acted better.

It actually doesn't even need to be subtle, but the writing quality has to improve, at a bare minimum. If the acting and writing isn't going to improve, and the episodes aren't going to have a point (Rosa and Demons of the Punjab being the most pointless episodes in the franchise, along with being boring), then you're just hurting your own message. Kind of like how Capaldi's Zygon two parter actually made The Doctor and immigrants the bad guys unintentionally though bad writing (this season hasn't fucked up quite that bad, but I can see it happening).

Anyway, another not good episode, but probably the most memorable one of the season so far.
 
JRoss said:
Hey, Brits, whom do I have to write to about getting Cummings' King James onto series 4 of Upstart Crow? That needs to happen or my life will feel incomplete. Many reasons, one of which being that it would weld Blackadder and Doctor Who together officially. In what universe can that be a bad thing?
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You did t see the millenium special of blackadder?
 
kirk55555 said:
A below average episode that was really obnoxious (The Doctor was right, this would have been better with a male Doctor, and to be fair this is the only story this season where this is true), but Alan Cumming pulls this episode up to being an average episode by pure force of being the only charismatic and entertaining actor to appear on this show all season (exposing even more how much the regular cast are just pathetic charisma vacuums, even though I think Whitaker can be better then that she certainly hasn't had the chance to be better).

You know, I generally like real world or message stuff in Sci Fi, and laugh at assholes who complain about it. Sci Fi addressing current issues is part of the genre, and done well can be very good. But for fucks sake, can we maybe just have an adventure every so often? Or, failing that, can Chibnail actually do social issue episodes competently? I mean, Rosa was just "Racism is bad, and here is the stupidest story in the world to illustrate that". Do a message episode in a way that is both well written and has the message enhance the story, not just be really fucking obvious. Classic Who was more subtle then this season. Hell, Star Trek's Let This Be Your Last Battlefield was more subtle then this season, and had better writing and was acted better.

It actually doesn't even need to be subtle, but the writing quality has to improve, at a bare minimum. If the acting and writing isn't going to improve, and the episodes aren't going to have a point (Rosa and Demons of the Punjab being the most pointless episodes in the franchise, along with being boring), then you're just hurting your own message. Kind of like how Capaldi's Zygon two parter actually made The Doctor and immigrants the bad guys unintentionally though bad writing (this season hasn't fucked up quite that bad, but I can see it happening).

Anyway, another not good episode, but probably the most memorable one of the season so far.
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I am not entirely sure that zygon thing was unintentional. It certainly had very mixed messages.
 
Alan Cumming had a crappy childhood, too. I wonder if he felt a sort of kinship with King James during the lament about his parents, etc.
 
Doctor Who 11.08 'The Witchfinders' review
The eighth episode of Series 11. Team TARDIS lands in early 17th Century Lancashire, where they find a village where Witch Trials are taking place. But there is a lot more going on than there first appear. A landowner who has 'duncked' 36 people, and King James VI/I. And for the first time, the Doctor is really up against sexism. The Doctor insisting on non-interference is consistent, but she quickly finds that something is wrong. Something is causing the witch hunt to be out of proportion for the time.
The Doctor trying to save Willa's (and Becka's) grandmother after the 'dunking' was very good, and consistent with her character. She is more compassionate than her previous selves. (Some of her previous selves would have done it also, but others would have left it up to their companions to do so.) The use of the psychic paper, to pass off Team TARDIS as witchfinders, was also a good choice. But King James would come in and ruin that idea. (Are you forgetting your immediate predecessor, as Monarch of England, James?)
However, His Majesty's characterisation is well set up in these introductory scenes. It certainly matches what I knew about the real King James. This is where the sexism comes in. The Doctor is put off by having to put Graham in charge as Chief Witchfinder. The various investigations that ensue from this encounter are handled rather well. Especially where Yas tries to encourage Willa to overcome her anxiety (by telling her about an experience with a bully). These disparate plots all lead to the revelation of the Morax...
That Bekka was the one who released them from their prison was a surprise, but the set up through the episode was well done. It didn't come out of thin air. The Doctor confronting Bekka about it was quite effective, and her escape from her 'dunking' was very Doctor-ish (including the lesson from Houdini during that very wet weekend). The explanation of the Morax and the role of the tree, was rather effective, as was the method of combating them. It was a very effective way to conclude the story.
The Doctor quoting Clarke's Third Law was a very good ending to the episode. 8.25/10.
 
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