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"The Waters of Mars" episode discussion

CaptainPipcard

Lieutenant
Red Shirt
I couldn't find a real episode discussion page, so I made one. (please note that I am in America)

-I would like to start by saying those fake news pages and obituaries don't look like they're from 2059, they look like a 2009 webpage.

-How did they do the water pouring out of infected peoples' mouths, and the "fire hose" hands?

-Zefram Cochrane, not Suzie Fontana Brooke! (pilot of the first lightspeed ship)

-Speedy GADGET is going at 88 miles per hour!

Feel free to make more comments.
 
I couldn't find a real episode discussion page, so I made one. (please note that I am in America)

Awesome. Welcome. :)

-I would like to start by saying those fake news pages and obituaries don't look like they're from 2059, they look like a 2009 webpage.
Agreed. But they were so quick, it didn't matter to me.

-How did they do the water pouring out of infected peoples' mouths, and the "fire hose" hands?
Outstanding special effects with what is considered, in American terms, as a very limited budget. Business as usual for Doctor Who. :techman:

-Zefram Cochrane, not Suzie Fontana Brooke! (pilot of the first lightspeed ship)
Wrong universe! :p

-Speedy GADGET is going at 88 miles per hour!
No idea what you're saying here.... :angel:
 
-I would like to start by saying those fake news pages and obituaries don't look like they're from 2059, they look like a 2009 webpage.
Agreed. But they were so quick, it didn't matter to me.

I paused them on my DVR. I could see stuff like the 2048 Paris Olympics.

-Speedy GADGET is going at 88 miles per hour!
No idea what you're saying here.... :angel:

It's the fire trails, which reminded me of the DeLorean from Back to the Future. (which is funny, because that movie involves time travel, like Doctor Who)

Can't wait for The End of Time !
 
Booyah! Got it. Sorry. Didn't catch it the first time. :techman:

As for EoT....I'm with you. I'm counting on this to be a strong finish for Number Ten. Which is why come Xmas, I'll be avoiding this forum like the plague until I see both parts of the story... ;)
 
Outstanding special effects with what is considered, in American terms, as a very limited budget. Business as usual for Doctor Who. :techman:
Doctor Who isn't that far off from an American budget. It's not like the '60s, where Evil of the Daleks was three times the length of "City on the Edge of Forever" and done on half the budget.

The first season cost more to make than later seasons because of Eccleston's salary and the need to build standing sets, and it came it between fifteen and twenty million dollars. Later seasons cost less; no need for standing sets, and Tennant made less than Eccleston. (He also made less than Billie Piper in the second season.) The budget for the second season was a bit diminished; besides Tennant's lower salary and the already built sets, the expected money from the American sale didn't materialize. (The BBC wanted fifteen million dollars for Doctor Who, but no American network was going to pony up that kind of money for a show they had no control over and no ownership stake in.) The fourth season was probably back up to the fifteen to twenty million range, due to Tennant and Tate's salaries.

I've not heard anything on the budget for the specials, but I imagine they've been done on a budget of roughly a million and a half to two million dollars.

By way of comparison, the McGann movie was done for something between four and six million dollars. In 1996 dollars. They sank a lot of money into that TARDIS set.

ETA: Here's some more analysis of Doctor Who's budget. Basically, the show is budgetarily on par with what the studios spent on Battlestar Galactica or Star Trek: Enterprise.

ETA2: And Matt Smith is a veritable bargain compared to what lead actors in American dramas might pull down. A million pounds over five years, while Tennant, at the end of his tenure, was a million pounds a year. At least the BBC has Smith locked down under contract for five years. Shows in the UK don't often contract for multiple seasons.
 
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Booyah! Got it. Sorry. Didn't catch it the first time. :techman:

As for EoT....I'm with you. I'm counting on this to be a strong finish for Number Ten. Which is why come Xmas, I'll be avoiding this forum like the plague until I see both parts of the story... ;)

I was thinking about doing the same thing. Record the episode this week (On BBC America) but don't watch it until I get the second part the week later and just make it one long epic grand finale. That probably means unsubscribing from this and the Scifi Forum for a few weeks but I think I can do that. (Kind of the bad thing about Subforums on Vbullitan though)
 
I see what they're trying to do with the Doctor and all but I didn't really find it very satisfying. I'm still scratching my head at how Adelaide's actions at the end would inspire her daughter.

The waterworks were pretty cool, the "hose" effect looked slightly CG but the flowing out of the mouth was effective.

I thought Gadget's upgrade was a bit silly considering the overall tone of the episode, a speed boost would be one thing but this was really over-the-top.

Overall, a mixed bag for me, sort of a Doctor Who zombie base siege but that isn't without its moments. However, I find most of the Doctor Who "specials" to be more underwhelming than they should have been.
 
I thought WoM was pretty good. Really creepy in some spots, and I thought it was funny that the Doctor, who seems to always be running around, was complaining that they should have bikes in the place. :D

I also liked some of the water effects, particularly the steady stream coming from their mouths. It was sad that that one female crewmember changed while watching the vid of her kids -- like she knew what was coming and wanted the last thing she saw as a human to be her kids.

The Doctor developed a bit of a God complex there towards the end, which was kind of shocking to see. He was a bit mad, I'd say. And as someone else mentioned, I don't quite see how Adelaide killing herself would still inspire her daughter. Oh, and it was nice to see the Doctor still had the space suit he acquired in "The Satan Pit".

Looking forward to the big 2-part finale!
 
The Doctor developed a bit of a God complex there towards the end, which was kind of shocking to see. He was a bit mad, I'd say. And as someone else mentioned, I don't quite see how Adelaide killing herself would still inspire her daughter. Oh, and it was nice to see the Doctor still had the space suit he acquired in "The Satan Pit".

Looking forward to the big 2-part finale!

There was the news report/wiki entry/whatever where the two other survivors praised Brooke for her efforts and even though she took her own life that might of been enough.

The Ancient Greeks had a work to describe what we saw from the Doctor in WoM - Hubris. The desrcription fits Time Lord Victorious to a T.

His regeneration could well be the consequence of such behaviour (just a theory) which would also fit in well with the concept of hubris.
 
When I first saw Waters of Mars I wasn't too sure what to make of things like Gadget and the like. But then I realized that all of these "cliched" trappings were, indeed, traps - to get us into the story before the show literally turned on a dime and went pitch black in tone. I bet a lot of folks tuned in expecting the usual "Doctor saves the day" but instead were hit with the Doctor nearly turning evil and a companion (I know, just a one-off, but the BBC says so, so she is) committing suicide. I thought it was a brilliant way of turning 45 years of DW conventions on their ears, and it's really got me looking forward to The End of Time. (Thankfully I'm away on holiday the day it airs in the UK and the US, so I won't be near TrekBBS or anyplace else to get spoiled before I get to see it here in Canada on Jan 2.)

Alex
 
Haven't tried to watch it again and pause on the "news report web pages," but I did notice a shout out to my alma mater, Rice University, on Adelaide's page! :-)
 
I thought Gadget's upgrade was a bit silly considering the overall tone of the episode, a speed boost would be one thing but this was really over-the-top.

In addition to that being a matter of tricking the audience into feeling relieved just before the episode turns pitch black in tone, I think there's something else to remember, here.

Doctor Who is still aimed at a family audience. And, well, those Water Martians were creepy. Add to that the sheer amount of emotional tension in the episode, the tone. I rather imagine that it could be a very scary episode for children!

So I think the function of things like Gadget is to help mediate the darkness and the scariness. The darkness is still there, the monsters are still coming, but there's a funny robot there to help the kids feel better, to help them process the episode over all. Sugar for a bitter pill.

I consider that thoroughly responsible storytelling from a creative team that remembers that they have a responsibility not to emotionally overwhelm audience members too young to fully handle darkness.
 
Also, I thought the scene where the Doctor supercharged Gadget was awesome. :D (But I am easily amused.)

I do question the use of an extra pair of hands... that takes a pair of hands to operate, however.
 
It was sad that that one female crewmember changed while watching the vid of her kids -- like she knew what was coming and wanted the last thing she saw as a human to be her kids.

Yeah, that was nicely done.

Yes it was, and not wanting to detract anything from that sequence or your opinion AND it's a matter of perspective on my part, but I thought that they weren't her children but younger siblings.
 
Outstanding special effects with what is considered, in American terms, as a very limited budget. Business as usual for Doctor Who. :techman:
Doctor Who isn't that far off from an American budget. It's not like the '60s, where Evil of the Daleks was three times the length of "City on the Edge of Forever" and done on half the budget.

The first season cost more to make than later seasons because of Eccleston's salary and the need to build standing sets, and it came it between fifteen and twenty million dollars. Later seasons cost less; no need for standing sets, and Tennant made less than Eccleston. (He also made less than Billie Piper in the second season.) The budget for the second season was a bit diminished; besides Tennant's lower salary and the already built sets, the expected money from the American sale didn't materialize. (The BBC wanted fifteen million dollars for Doctor Who, but no American network was going to pony up that kind of money for a show they had no control over and no ownership stake in.) The fourth season was probably back up to the fifteen to twenty million range, due to Tennant and Tate's salaries.

I've not heard anything on the budget for the specials, but I imagine they've been done on a budget of roughly a million and a half to two million dollars.

By way of comparison, the McGann movie was done for something between four and six million dollars. In 1996 dollars. They sank a lot of money into that TARDIS set.

ETA: Here's some more analysis of Doctor Who's budget. Basically, the show is budgetarily on par with what the studios spent on Battlestar Galactica or Star Trek: Enterprise.

ETA2: And Matt Smith is a veritable bargain compared to what lead actors in American dramas might pull down. A million pounds over five years, while Tennant, at the end of his tenure, was a million pounds a year. At least the BBC has Smith locked down under contract for five years. Shows in the UK don't often contract for multiple seasons.

That is just speculation on budgets though. I don't think there's ever been anything official as to what the budget is or what the stars are paid.
 
It was sad that that one female crewmember changed while watching the vid of her kids -- like she knew what was coming and wanted the last thing she saw as a human to be her kids.

Yeah, that was nicely done.

Yes it was, and not wanting to detract anything from that sequence or your opinion AND it's a matter of perspective on my part, but I thought that they weren't her children but younger siblings.
I, too, agree that was a very nice moment, but I definitely got the impression they were her kids.

On a side note, I lover you avatar. I'm currently watching Spaced for the first time and I'm loving every minute of it. Where did you get that image?
 
On a side note, I lover you avatar. I'm currently watching Spaced for the first time and I'm loving every minute of it. Where did you get that image?

cheers, it is a fantastic programme, the first time I watched it I was in stitches from start to finish. The image is a slightly cropped version of the front cover of the three disc definitive edition that was brought out a few years ago (and I own) - after rewatching the whole of both series over the weekend I decided I would have that image as my avatar.
 
On a side note, I lover you avatar. I'm currently watching Spaced for the first time and I'm loving every minute of it. Where did you get that image?
cheers, it is a fantastic programme, the first time I watched it I was in stitches from start to finish. The image is a slightly cropped version of the front cover of the three disc definitive edition that was brought out a few years ago (and I own) - after rewatching the whole of both series over the weekend I decided I would have that image as my avatar.
Excellent, thank you. I just finished the series, and like so many British shows, I'm left wanting so much more.
 
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