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The Warp Scale: Trek's Biggest Mistake?

In TNG, increasing speed from Warp 8.5 to Warp 9 resulted in lowering the distance of Ent-D to its destination from 14 hrs to 5 hrs (that's about 65% reduction in time, or 65% increase in speed going from just 8.5 to 9) - but it wasn't established how many times of C this was.

Warp 9.9 = 21 473 times C per Paris statement is not a problem.
That would mean that 10 000 times C could be in the realm of Warp 9.6.

Warp 9 could be 1500 times C... Warp 9.2 = 3000 times C, Warp 9.6 = 9000 times C (which would be consistent with Data's statement that at maximum Warp it would take Ent-D over 300 years to get back to the Federation), and 9.9 could land at 21 473 times C.

Most Federation (or other AQ) ships weren't able to sustain anything past Warp 9 during TNG per on-screen evidence anyway... and only seldom have we seen ships like Ent-D travelling at Warp 9.6 for brief periods.
Ent-D can sustain 9.2 for a while.

In DS9, the USS Prometheus (a Nebula class ship) was modified by O'brien to sustain Warp 9.6 in a pinch, even though the theoretical maximum for those engines was 9.5.

Voyager was supposed to have a sustainable cruise velocity of 9.975 (meaning that the ship should have been able to sustain this speed without problem for as long as it had fuel to run it), but being thrown into the DQ violently could have destroyed their ability to do that (the ship was heavily damaged by the time they were transported to the Caretaker's Array from the Badlands).
For all we know, Voyager might have been the first in its class to experiment with that kind of Warp propulsion (which also might have been sensitive enough for that kind of violent transport), but it ended up cruising at Warp 6.
Even in 'Threshold' episode (which was booted out of canon), Voyager's hull was starting to fall apart at Warp 9.9 and had to slow down to Warp 9.5.

If the Warp scale results in exponential increase per every increment past Warp 9.9... then Warp 9.975 = 3 435 680 times C.
It would allow Voyager to return home in 7.9 days (or let's round it up to 8 days).
Incidentally, that would put Warp 9.975 at 392.1666 ly's per hour (above maximum attainable speed by Slipstream version 1 which topped out at 300 ly's per hour).
Though Slipstream version 2 topped out at about 10 000 Ly's per minute (which would be just under Warp 9.999) - and that was a combination of Borg technology, benemite crystals, and had a proper quantum matrix (it was an overall different beast than Slipstream V1 or even Borgh TW).

One of the problems I have with Trek is that the Federation should have advanced to these speeds in the 23rd century given the kind of society it is and the fact that exponential returns would have easily granted them these velocities.

I could see TOS Enterprise topping at say 1000 Ly's a day for a limited time... and their Transwarp breakthrough (which was seen in the movies) would have increased that to say 10 000 Ly's a day (if you use that as a measure, then the TW experiment never failed and the Enterprise-A was equipped with it, which also allowed it to get to Sha'Ka'Re in the center of the Galaxy in a few days).
Earth is about 25 000 Ly's from the galactic core... so the Ent-A would get there in 2 and a half days (which would be consistent of a few days travel in ST: V).

Now, those TOS episodes with very high speeds either took place in alternate realities, or SF simply put the Transwarp engines on hold after they heard of the Borg from El-Aurian refugees when Enterprise-B was commissioned (and didn't want to risk early assimilation by spreading into the galaxy too fast before they are ready)... either explanation 'might' work.

I can also see how very high Warp speeds would drain deuterium that much faster, but you'd think SF would overcome this problem by the 24th century and use a method of power generation directly from subspace using the Bussard Collectors (which is what they are supposed to do anyway)... so that the faster you go, you end up feeding the engines at such high rates via subspace essentially... and generating deuterium and other needed substances on the go.
 
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2) Because the scale is logarithmic, linear acceleration results in ever smaller increments of change in velocity. It's even worse when you're using a Warp Scale with Warp 10 pegged to infinity. If a helmsperson reports that you're at Warp 9, then a few seconds later states that you're at Warp 9.1, it might be on the order of minutes before you get to Warp 9.2, and you might not reach 9.3 before the end of the episode.

I was actually about to start a new thread about this, but luckily I saw this post and am able to contribute to this conversation instead. So we have seen starships travel at Warp 9.XX-whatever, and in the grand scheme of things, they're still puttering about a small corner of the galaxy, relatively speaking. Yet we know that Warp 10 is "infinite velocity," where you're supposedly simultaneously everywhere in the entire universe. So what would be the Starfleet warp equivalent of Borg Transwarp? Or Quantum Slipstream? Would it be Warp 9.999999999995? And what about a speed that can zip your ship between galaxies? And with billions of galaxies, you would need a speed even faster than that to make it functional. So Warps 1-9 are poking around a pocket of space, and then Warps 9-10 is somehow all other speeds until infinity?? It is not practical at all and doesn't make sense, at least not to me, anyway.
 
The new warp scale was supposed to simplify dialogue, but ended up being broken almost straight away in EAF, when the Enterprise and Q started doing speeds in excess of Warp 9. If 10 is the limit, you really don't want to be tooling around in those high factors so soon into a series. Where can you go?
And three episodes later in WNOHGB, they were "passing Warp 10"
 
I was actually about to start a new thread about this, but luckily I saw this post and am able to contribute to this conversation instead. So we have seen starships travel at Warp 9.XX-whatever, and in the grand scheme of things, they're still puttering about a small corner of the galaxy, relatively speaking. Yet we know that Warp 10 is "infinite velocity," where you're supposedly simultaneously everywhere in the entire universe. So what would be the Starfleet warp equivalent of Borg Transwarp? Or Quantum Slipstream? Would it be Warp 9.999999999995? And what about a speed that can zip your ship between galaxies? And with billions of galaxies, you would need a speed even faster than that to make it functional. So Warps 1-9 are poking around a pocket of space, and then Warps 9-10 is somehow all other speeds until infinity?? It is not practical at all and doesn't make sense, at least not to me, anyway.
That's why i prefer my system (see previous posts in this thread).
It's literally the TNG system / formula, but remove the stupid hand drawn curve after Warp 9 and continually uses the same formula so that it scales consistently.
 
I was actually about to start a new thread about this, but luckily I saw this post and am able to contribute to this conversation instead. So we have seen starships travel at Warp 9.XX-whatever, and in the grand scheme of things, they're still puttering about a small corner of the galaxy, relatively speaking. Yet we know that Warp 10 is "infinite velocity," where you're supposedly simultaneously everywhere in the entire universe. So what would be the Starfleet warp equivalent of Borg Transwarp? Or Quantum Slipstream? Would it be Warp 9.999999999995? And what about a speed that can zip your ship between galaxies? And with billions of galaxies, you would need a speed even faster than that to make it functional. So Warps 1-9 are poking around a pocket of space, and then Warps 9-10 is somehow all other speeds until infinity?? It is not practical at all and doesn't make sense, at least not to me, anyway.

If you go by Paris statement that 9.9 = 21 473 times C, then each increment past 9.9 results in exponential increase in velocity, resulting in something like this:
Warp 9.9 = 21 473 times LS = 58.83 Ly's per day

Warp 9.91 = 42 946 times LS = 117.66 Ly’s per day

Warp 9.92 = 85 892 times LS = 235.32 Ly’s per day

Warp 9.93 = 171 784 times LS = 470.64 Ly’s per day

Warp 9.94 = 343 568 times LS = 941.28 Ly’s per day

Warp 9.95 = 687 136 times LS = 1 882.56 Ly’s per day

Warp 9.96 = 1 374 272 times LS = 3 765.12 Ly’s per day

Warp 9.97 = 2 748 544 times LS = 7 530.25 Ly’s per day

Warp 9.975 = 3 435 680 times LS = 9 412.82 Ly’s per day

Warp 9.98 = 5 497 088 times LS = 15 060.51 Ly’s per day

Warp 9.99 = 10 994 176 times LS = 30 121.02 Ly’s per day

Warp 9.991 = 21 988 352 times LS = 60 242.04 Ly’s per day

Warp 9.992 = 43 976 704 times LS = 120 484.08Ly’s per day

Warp 9.993 = 87 953 408 times LS = 240 968.16 Ly’s per day

Warp 9.994 = 175 906 816 times LS = 481 936.32 Ly’s per day

Warp 9.995 = 351 813 632 times LS = 963 872.64 Ly’s per day

Warp 9.996 = 703 627 264 times LS = 1 927 745.28 Ly’s per day

Warp 9.997 = 1 407 254 528 times LS = 3 855 490.56 Ly’s per day

Warp 9.998 = 2 814 509 056 times LS = 7 710 981.12 Ly’s per day

Warp 9.999 = 5 629 018 112 times LS = 15 421 962.24 Ly’s per day

Using this scale, Quantum slipstream V1 (from Hope and Fear episode) = 300 Ly's per hour (7200 Ly's a day, and 2,628,000 times C).
That places it between Warp 9.96 and 9.97.
Voyager's maximum sustainable cruise velocity of 9.975 would be faster in that case... and the reason Voyager never obtained those speeds is easily explained through the ship suffering catastrophic damage in the initial pull to the DQ which damaged their hull and engines to the point where they were 'stuck' at roughly 9.5 of 'sustainable maximum speed' (in Threshold episode, Warp 9.9 resulted in their hull starting to collapse, and Chakotay ordered a reduction to 9.5).
But, as we've seen, Voyager was mostly seen cruising at Warp 6 (which was later estimated by Starfleet when they were trying to contact them with the MIDAS array), probably to conserve energy as well since the ship instigated replicator rations (suggesting that power efficiency systems were damaged as well in the initial transit that they were never able to repair).

Quantum Slipstream V2 (from Timeless episode) resulted in roughly 10 000 Lys per minute, or about 14,400,000 times C - which would place it between Warp 9.998 and 9.999 (closer to 9.999).

As for Borg Transwarp... not sure how fast it was... but the sphere which took Seven in 'Dark Frontier' traversed about 10 000 Ly's to get to Borg space and the superstructure with the Queen.
Depending how long the sphere was in transit (which certainly seemed less than a day and more like 10 minutes - especially if you take into account how the Delta Flyer was chased through TW all the way back to Voyager's location - but the Flyer's initial search for the Sphere certainly appeared to take longer).
If we assume that Borg TW conduit (via the coil) allowed 10 000 Ly's in 15 or 20 mins, that would place it around Warp 9.994 or 9.995 on my scale.

By the time we saw the Borg TW Hub in 'Endgame'... that form of TW seemed to have been on a same/similar level of Quantum Slipstream V2 (10 000 Ly's per minute... maybe half as much, considering that Voyager was much closer to the Federation at that point).

Bearing in mind that we never see any Federation ships reaching Warp 9.9 until the USS Prometheus was constructed (the one from 'Message in the bottle' episode - and the EMH mentioned they are travelling towards Romulan Space at Warp 9.9 - EMH 2 mentions the ship was built to be fastest in the fleet too).
So, its also possible that Voyager's maximum sustainable cruise velocity might have been Warp 9.75 (not 9.975)... but since we do have 9.975 quoted on screen several times, I usually go with 'severely damaged engines, hull and power systems' which forced the ship and crew to use much lower speeds and replicator rations).

We did see the replicator rations being not so frequently mentioned (or in use) by the later seasons, suggesting that the crew managed to improve it with some alien friends or by themselves... but the engines and hull remained a problem, so higher Warp velocities still remained... unattainable.
 
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