The Walking Dead Season 5

[Jax]

I hate it when TWD decides to be really slow and really depressing even by its normal standards. Sasha and army boy (forgot his name) are going through the exact same storyline we've seen so many times so forgive me if they bore me with their pitiful self destructive behaviour.

Rick's little TWD speech was ace.

 

[Scout101]

Of course it would. It's exciting in ZA movies/shows for them to head towards a recognizable city/location, but that's the last thing you want to do. Your two big enemies in a ZA are the Living, and the Formerly Living. Heading towards large population centers doesn't exactly make either of those any easier.

Those sorts of areas should be zombie-rich environments, to the point where the living wouldn't be anywhere nearby anymore, it would have burned itself out. After a point, resources don't really matter, there's just millions of them around, they don't quit, don't get tired, etc.

Stuck with the comics as source material, but anywhere near DC seems pretty foolish as a goal. Should have been a high-casualty area, and while it's rural after a quick hop, still several large-population cities in the vicinity that would all be creating huge zombie numbers.

Not sure how the group ran out of resources with the number of places they should have passed along the east coast...

 

[DarthTom]

^^^

Curious. You find no validity to the argument in such a scenario for people to flock to a city like Washington d.c. which likely has a lot of survival infrastructure?

Washington not only has a massive police force but that's augmented by the secret service - for not only the President but also the Congress protection. Also the Dept of Homeland security is located in the city + the FBI. Added to that several surrounding military bases and the area is awash in not only firepower but I'd imagine backup supplies during an emergency.

 

[Silvercrest]

So was Atlanta. Why didn't they head there?

Oh, wait.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

The question that should have been looked into on the way is, were other major population centers napalmed like Atlanta? Heading to DC, they should have passed near Charlotte, NC, Greensboro, NC, Raleigh-Durham and Richmond, VA. I'm assuming they weren't bombed, since I'd like to think the story would show us realizing this. But, I may be expecting too much from these writers

 

[DarthTom]

So was Atlanta. Why didn't they head there?

Oh, wait.

I live here in Atlanta and have visited D.C. several times. The sheer volume and overall police and overall armed presence here in ATL isn't anywhere near that of D.C coupled with the fact that the FBI headquarters isn't located here, nor the Dept of Homeland Security, nor several military bases near the city as exists in D.C. as well.

The question that should have been looked into on the way is, were other major population centers napalmed like Atlanta? Heading to DC, they should have passed near Charlotte, NC, Greensboro, NC, Raleigh-Durham and Richmond, VA. I'm assuming they weren't bombed, since I'd like to think the story would show us realizing this. But, I may be expecting too much from these writers

If you travel through the blueridge mountain route through NC and VA to avoid major population centers it's possible to have very little contact with major population centers thus also avoiding the interstate system.

 

[Mojochi]

I liked this episode. I really didn't why however they were upset at Sasha for knifing the walker in the head? Yea, tricking them into falling was a less violent approach to eliminate the threat but hers worked too.

I took it more being about expenditure of energy. In a survival situation, the expenditure of energy must be calculated against fluid & caloric intake. The least amount of effort is the best course of action when dehydration & starvation is at hand. Look at what Sasha looked like after that skirmish. She's spent energy she didn't have to spare, and so did the rest in having to go at it with her. It was foolhardy. Something like that could mean your life if you don't have the energy to hunt or salvage later. You spend energy with the intention of gaining something. I'd say that she at least redeemed herself with the dog dinner though. They were in no shape to rustle with those dogs. 4 bullets might have been costly, but needed in this circumstance.

 

[Scout101]

^there's around 6 million in the DC metro area, and that's assuming they don't get any bonus herds that wander in from Baltimore (another 2.7M or so) or any of the other surrounding cities. We've already seen army, cops, etc. overrun with ease at the start of this thing, why would DC be much different? You may have small groups in assorted bunkers, but just as possible that they didn't understand it at first and you have bunkers full of zombies.

And not like the area itself is of any use, it's pavement and buildings. No real useful resources, it's either metro area or suburban hell that goes on forever.

So, what's the plus side, and why would a safe zone be more likely to exist in that scenario? I'd take random small town in Nebraska every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. Wyoming or Montana also excellent bets. Basically be as far away from dark spots on this map, and certainly not head up the east coast where you have the concentration of dark red areas...

http://education.randmcnally.com/images/edpub/US_Population.png

If they're too stupid to figure out that they want an island, at least just head to southern GA, as that's the quickest trip to a low-density area.

People are dangerous, either as people or zombies. You want to be as far from that as possible. Pretty much #1 rule. You already saw the CDC, and they flat out said they got nothing, so should just be looking to hunker down for a couple years until this thing burns itself out a bit. Should be running low on fresh zombies by that point, so 'original' zombies should be breaking down somewhat and easier to deal with.

 

[DarthTom]

I took it more being about expenditure of energy. In a survival situation, the expenditure of energy must be calculated against fluid & caloric intake. The least amount of effort is the best course of action when dehydration & starvation is at hand. Look at what Sasha looked like after that skirmish. She's spent energy she didn't have to spare, and so did the rest in having to go at it with her. It was foolhardy. Something like that could mean your life if you don't have the energy to hunt or salvage later. You spend energy with the intention of gaining something. I'd say that she at least redeemed herself with the dog dinner though. They were in no shape to rustle with those dogs. 4 bullets might have been costly, but needed in this circumstance.

Yea. Several people pointed that out - duh - should have occurred to me. Regardless, the show tends to conviently make the walkers dangerous when needed and not so much when not. 2 other examples of course is Morgan single-highhandedly fended off walkers in his town using spikes but this method seems to not be used by anyone else notably at the prison save the entrance.

Then of course the hoard of walkers that Tyreese, Michonne, Daryl, and Bob fend off - like thousands pictured - when going to retrieve the medicine for the prison at the vet hospital.

There is some degree of inconsistency IMO with regard to how dangerous they are - or not - depending upon what the plot requires.

This episode underscores how apparently they can be simply tricked to fall of a bridge yet heretofore no one thinks of this this?

 

[DarthTom]

So, what's the plus side, and why would a safe zone be more likely to exist in that scenario? I'd take random small town in Nebraska every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. Wyoming or Montana also excellent bets. Basically be as far away from dark spots on this map, and certainly not head up the east coast where you have the concentration of dark red areas...

http://education.randmcnally.com/images/edpub/US_Population.png

I'd assume the federal government would use every possible last resource available to save the capitol - drones - reserves - secret service etc.

Also, FEMA is located in D.C. and I'd imagine they also have huge medical and food reserves.

 

[shapeshifter]

How many times were there "answered prayers" in this episode?
1. Rainfall just when they needed water and were tempted by the 'gift' of water bottles in the road.
2. No food to be found and then feral dogs show up.
3. Available barn to get out of the rain.
4. Walkers at the door and then a tornado dispatches them and doesn't destroy the barn.

Apparently Aaron is a Miracle Worker!

 

[Scout101]

I'd assume the federal government would use every possible last resource available to save the capitol - drones - reserves - secret service etc.

Also, FEMA is located in D.C. and I'd imagine they also have huge medical and food reserves.

So best case, they got into bunkers and firebombed themselves? They made no effort (by the end) to save Atlanta, tried to just eradicate the problem, still fully zombie infested. I guess my question is: so what? what do you imagine the drones and secret service folks are going to do in this instance? Against about 10 million zombies within an hour's radius? And even if they got a little something going, are they still holding out 2 years later?

FEMA doesn't hoard their entire resources in a single building in DC, do they? Would imagine it's spread out all over the country, especially in areas where they predict they may need said resources. And if they've got enough onhand to support a couple natural disasters, how long does that last? In general, those resources are supposed to be deployable to last a week or so, maybe a little more, for a large number. They're only still holding out on them if you assume that almost everyone is dead, no?

In general, I just don't see it. You don't survive for years, much less thrive, in a former massive population center. To have any chance, government would have needed to fall back, and you attempt to retake the capital at a later date, once you've got a place to start from. Under siege, in the middle of the eastern seaboard isn't the place to start, and nothing useful or unique enough about DC to really suggest it's worth holding in that example.

And as people didn't know much about the ZA at the start, lots of places that could have been safe in a regular disaster were likely lost/compromised early. I know the comics are forcing us to go there, I just don't see how it makes any sense in a "real" ZA. Tell me that the safe zone is based around a decent military base in a sparsely populated Midwest state, I'm on board. Maybe Area 51 has enough infrastructure and a lack of people, although desert makes it kinda tough to otherwise survive. Or at least something defensible like Cheyenne Mountain, but half a million people in Colorado Springs. But I'd head for a base like that as a starting point to retake the country over DC every time. As long as they didn't screw up the initial ZA and get compromised, they've got a defendable base, military hardware and personnel, and not a ton of fresh zombies knocking on the door.

DC should just be a dead zone. Millions too many zombies wandering around to make it a viable place to survive. Not even if every secret service member is a Chuck Norris/Jack Bauer combo clone. Zombies just win on sheer numbers, lack of need for resources, and brute force.

 

[DarthTom]

^^^

You're of course right Scout, but it's fun to postulate about. The TV show is hamstrung by the comic books to a greater or lesser degree.

Hopefully the new series that isn't beholden to the comics will be more, "real life," on the way people might actually react in such a scenario.

 

[Silvercrest]

I was oversimplifying in my last post, and mea culpa for not noticing you're in Atlanta. Still, my point is similar to Scout's. DC may very well have more "stuff" than anywhere else, but any urban center will have a certain amount of it, starting with Atlanta. And any urban center will also have a decent number of survivors who've already picked through the good stuff, and also hordes and hordes of walkers. As we've seen with Atlanta. The only possible difference with DC is if it somehow held against the walkers, and Scout makes a pretty good case for why that's unlikely. Unless the characters have some reason to think there's something there. Aside from Eugene's blathering, they don't.

I have to agree with you on walker portrayal in general. There have been times when I just had to roll my eyes. That stealth walker who literally came out of nowhere and attacked Andrea just outside the prison, for example.

The portrayal this time was fine, as were the tactics used against them considering the group's weakened state. However, I think there are alternatives. I believe most times you're being chased by a herd: All you need to do is get far enough ahead of them to get out of their direct line of sight (and smell), then turn aside. They'll just keep going in a straight line. It's not like they're going to stop and look for you once they've lost the trail.

In this case the group might not have been able to run fast enough to get out of their line of sight, but upon reaching a sharp bend or turn in the road, the same principle applies.

Side question: In the case of a curvy road, do you think the walkers would ever follow the line of the road, or just walk off into the woods whenever they hit a curve? Assuming they're not following something, of course.

 

[DarthTom]

Side question: In the case of a curvy road, do you think the walkers would ever follow the line of the road, or just walk off into the woods whenever they hit a curve? Assuming they're not following something, of course.

They can obviously see and it would seem motivated by some primitive instincts. If you recall, Morgan's dead wife returned to her house from time to time as if she was going home.

So I'd think that a curvy road they'd avoid an obvious hazard but miss a less obvious one. Another example is of course the episode where the walker falls through the weakened train tracks that Lizzy feeds mice to.

You've brought up an interesting point though. Why don't walkers walk into trees but they do walk into spikes?

 

[Silvercrest]

Ha, good one.

In the case of the road I wasn't thinking of hazards so much as navigational instincts. I'd generally expect a walker "traveling in a straight line" to do exactly that regardless of whether a road is present or not. If they're coincidentally on a road, they'll leave it as soon as it "throws them a curve", literally and figuratively.

But it also makes sense that a walker might follow the general route of a road just because it's the easiest or most obvious path -- even if it isn't straight. We've seen plenty of walkers cruising the highways, for example. And yes, I was thinking of Morgan's wife and some other examples. Basic navigational instincts might still apply.

 

[Ryan8bit]

The thing about DC is that it came from a more organic place in the comics. The constant shoehorning of things from the comics that don't make sense into a show that already significantly deviated from there, is wearing kind of thin.

In the comics, Eugene didn't come off as totally ridiculous as he does in the show. And the reveal about his background didn't come until they were pretty much already at the doorstep of DC.

Now in the show, Rick has twice decided to go to DC for what seems like pretty stupid reasons. They're just parroting the comic, and that's not an effective way to write this.

So yeah, talk about the believability of the group's actions and the plan to go to DC all you want, but the underlying truth is that things on this show don't make sense. Whether it's from the very premise of the dead rising (and staying risen after all that time), or because of the fact that entire governments and militaries would collapse in the face of danger. Everything is just a vehicle to show the drama about a change of morality, and furthermore the show is a vehicle to mimic events in the comics. It apparently doesn't have to make much sense.

2 other examples of course is Morgan single-highhandedly fended off walkers in his town using spikes but this method seems to not be used by anyone else notably at the prison save the entrance.

Uh, didn't they actually have big rows of spikes by the prison gate doors at the end? I think that's where Michonne got her new pets from. Unless I'm misreading this.

 

[Thestral]

A much better episode. Nobody unbelievably sacrificed for drama and nice to get some real fallout. I'm beginning to think we may completely avoid Maggie

Spoiler: Comic spoilers

attempting suicide

in the show?

If you travel through the blueridge mountain route through NC and VA to avoid major population centers it's possible to have very little contact with major population centers thus also avoiding the interstate system.

Actually no, that would be I-81 if you cut across southwest NC and picked it up around Bristol. Or go up 75 from Atlanta (which they explicitly spend some time on in the comics where Rick and co. were from KY originally). It doesn't work though because they went to Richmond for Noah, so generally working up the coast it looks like.

 

[kitik]

They've mentioned that they like to stick with the backroads. They're usually more passable. (And of course infinitely more filmable.) Even if they don't stick to the same road all the way, it shouldn't be super hard to navigate various smaller roads to avoid the highways and cities.

 

[Mojochi]

I'd assume the federal government would use every possible last resource available to save the capitol - drones - reserves - secret service etc.

Also, FEMA is located in D.C. and I'd imagine they also have huge medical and food reserves.

And that’s why you go nowhere near there. The BEST possible scenario is that it is a refugee mess, waging a war on an extinction level plague for over a year, in the middle of the most densely populated area on the continent. There is NO way they’ve eliminated the threat, and there’s no way your being there will benefit them or you. The more likely scenario is that they’ve run, hid, or probably gotten out into rural areas.

Whatever the case is in D.C. The last thing you want to do is blindly mosey your way into there with a dozen starving rejects. It’s suicide. My guess is they’ll be scooped up before they get into it that deep, by some peripheral community, probably connected to this happy looking chap this week

What you should be doing is finding the MOST secluded & defensible place you can, & settle down, stay hidden, devise the savviest plan for how to feed & house your people, provide for their needs & safety, & cautiously add to their numbers

THEN you build a transmitter & try to CONTACT anyone in any form of governing system left on this decaying heap. That’s the smart way to seek out aid, info, others, etc...

My opinion is that the best place is a disconnected coastal island, like Cumberland Is. off the coast of Georgia. Survive 1st (Which is a long term proposition) And reconnect 2nd (with the least amount of risk to yourselves). Don’t put the cart before the horse