Spoilers The Walking Dead Season 10

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by JD, Jul 20, 2019.

  1. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Enjoyable character piece with Darryl and Carol essentially having to find their way through the tensions they've been feeling. Though nothing's really resolved, they are still on talking terms, so nothing's been irreparably broken. Some nice touching moments with Jerry trying to offer support while still dealing with his own issues over the departure of Ezekiel, which could very well be permanent as far as anyone knows. Kind of amusing all the effort Carol expends tearing the house apart to get to the rat, only for it to scamper out while she chats with Jerry.

    I was going to comment this episode seems the most obvious to be filmed with pandemic precautions, but then on Talking Dead they revealed this was in fact the first of these bonus episodes to be filmed, so I guess that makes sense, they obviously wanted to start off slow with a minimum cast and as many evident precautions as possible.
     
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  2. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Is the very negative response to the Darrell and Carol episodes going to lead to cancelation of the spinoff?
     
  3. auntiehill

    auntiehill The Blooness Premium Member

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    I really love the Carol & Daryl episodes. This one was sweet, especially the hug with Jerry at the end . I wish Daryl & Carol would just make-up and get back together.

    "Dog" is a star! I was surprised Dog went with Carol at the fork in the road. Maybe he sensed she needed him more.

    The Negan backstory episode is next week ---seems odd to be doing it after all this time, but it should be pretty epic.
     
  4. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Admiral Admiral

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    Why did Carol care if the food fell on the floor. It's the apocalypse. I'm sure people have eaten worst. Jason
     
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  5. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She still wanted it to be a special treat for everyone, and having it tossed on a floor where a dog and a rat are doing who knows what kind of takes away from that.
     
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  6. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's all you got for Jerry?
    I know he was brief, but he was powerful.

    After the first couple of times, I was getting annoyed at his "Ezekiel has a saying for that.." but when Carol asked , "What would Jerry say?" <big hug> ... that was was picture perfect, and the love and respect that Jerry has for Ezekiel, totally spread to Carol (not that we didn't know that)
    For me, overall it was a B-.... it felt like filler, disappointing for these 2 strong characters. But the Jerry scene at the end -- A+
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    yeah... this one definitely saw the social distancing... except for Jerry's hug at the end. That surprised me (given how Covid-careful they were, and had Jerry and Carol talking at least 6 feet apart, the rest of theSo did they write the 2 episodes together, and just filmed this first? (As it seems to be the easiest to have done). It seemed a little vague about the end of their previous episode and this beginning.

    episode).

    I know these were bonus episodes...but if this is any indication what the show will be about...i just don't see how it can go beyond a limited series (like World of the walking dead). They story arc has been great over the course of the series... but only as part of the whole. Having multiple seasons of this...i just don't see it.


    ===

    A couple comments from previous episodes...

    The Princess episode -- i wonder if they did that because after the initial shutdown, they decided to end with season 11, so that Princess might not have much screen time? They way the episode ended... it seems like you could jump from official season 10 episode right into the season 11 episode.

    --

    For the Aaron & Gabriel episode... i really hate where Gabriel is going... it's like he is TRYING to be a badass, but instead is taking on toxic characteristics. It seems like he might need to be put down in season 11?
     
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  7. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    For this episode--yes. I think the real standout episode for Jerry might be in the final season.


    I never believed the proposed Daryl/Carol series was going to be anything other than a limited show; if the showrunners were smart, they would plan for only one season and allow the show to wrap up whatever they wanted to explore with the two characters as a cap on / comment on everything they've been through together without external threats driving their actions.


    No, Gabriel does not need to die; he's been one of the better characters left from the 1st half of this series. Gabriel is angry--fed up with nihilism and how evil has been embraced by every group he's ever encountered even before leaving Atlanta. From the Terminus survivors, the corrupt cops at Grady Memorial, the Wolves, Saviors, Whisperers and random monsters like the one he (and Aaron) just faced, it seems to have no end, so of course, anger and fatigue will set in.
     
  8. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Walking Dead
    Season 10 - Episode 22 - "Here's Negan" - SEASON FINALE


    Negan: Interesting that Negan wondered if the council really banished him, or was this Carol's decision...

    "You're a cult of personality without the cult." That's a rather big (albeit short-lived) moment of self analysis for Negan--probably the first since he became "Negan."

    I suppose whoever buried Lucille near the tree where Negan's throat was cut by Rick was sending a cosmic message of a kind--that the weapon that defined him was buried at the site of his defeat.

    Negan was once a half-caring husband (committing adultery with a woman named Janine), high school gym teacher and hesitant about killing walkers. The irony of his transformation into a serial murderer and sexual predator is that he and Rick both started off (at least when the zombie apocalypse began) as caring men who were beaten by the ZA world into merciless survivors. Of the two, Rick did become reacquainted with humanity in honoring Carl's wishes to show mercy (in sparing Negan's life), but Negan--only really sorry for the loss of Lucille--is not truly repentant.

    Lucille:
    So sympathetically played by Hilarie Burton Morgan (Jeffrey Dean Morgan's real life wife), one could see why younger Negan would become so desperate to save her...but in this episode's neverending success at breaking expectations, she had a dark side, supporting Negan assaulting one of the kids at his high school. That said, her true nature emerged in her remaining months, keeping Negan whole--sane.

    I knew what was coming, but to see that she tied herself to their bed, swallowing enough pills to kill herself and for "insurance" suffocate herself with the plastic bag over her head was a harrowing event. This has to rank as one of the most tragic deaths in TWD's history. Negan initially not finding the strength to kill her was heartbreaking, the writers grasping the reality of how a loving husband could not just "do what is necessary" like a cartoonish video game character and kill his wife, even one who had turned.

    Laura and Franklin: Now this was a surprise--Laura was with the traveling medical group. She was a character that seemed to have things suggested, but never explored (i.e. how she became so cold and demoralized when introduced as one of Negan's thugs back in season 7). So it was Laura who gave Negan the bat he would use to get his revenge against the biker gang. The last we hear of her is in the camper being robbed--and one must assume--assaulted.

    Franklin & Laura acting as a mobile medical unit--being as altruistic as possible--was a nice mirror of what Morgan is attempting...both finding too much resistance to carry out that mission for any length of time. Once he set himself free, Franklin went after Laura--the last we see of him. I get the feeling season 11 will give viewers another look into Negans' past to tie up the loose end of why Laura ended up with Negan...and what happened to Franklin.

    Maggie: Negan's defiant return leads everyone to believe she won't rest until Negan is dead, but I think their relationship is going to take a different direction--still frigid at its core--but not ending with one killing the other.

    NOTES:

    The 10th season of the most successful fantasy series of this century comes to a close. There was no better way to remind viewers of what this series can deliver than a season filled with excellent character studies taking center stage far above zombie / despot violence. The series had stumbled off and on over the past three seasons, but this year was its strongest since the highs of S5. This is how a series makes fans look forward to August.

    Negan finally destroyed the bat, but only to let go of the psychological salve he had applied to himself by giving it the name of his wife. He has yet to really feel sorrow for all of the deaths he

    As Lucille angrily took off in her car, not only did we hear an early report of the dead eating the living, but the song she blasted was a nod to The Return of the Living Dead (1985), with the song most associated with it, "Partytime" from the group 45 Grave. This might the series' first direct reference to another major zombie production.

    GRADE: A.
     
  9. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Hot damn, this episode was amazing. We get a look into Negan's origin story and his relationship and marriage with Lucille, the namesake of the bat. I thought they did a really good job showing that although the two of them did love each other very much it wasn't the sort of idealized perfect happily ever after sort of deals that we typically see relationships with someone who is The One, particularly when we're looking back on that relationship after it ended. Negan and Lucille very much had a flawed relationship, but in spite of those flaws they still had what will be considered the happiest time of either of their lives. It really becomes a sad moment when Negan finally returns home after his struggle to get the cancer meds only to find Lucille has already taken her own life and he's stuck dealing with her as a walker, then when he burns the house down to finally put her to rest, then mirrored in the present day when he tosses Lucille the bat into the fireplace.

    This episode was definitely a fascinating look into who Negan is, was and who he's becoming. We see him at the end of the old world, a fired gym teacher on probation after an assault charge wasting the days playing video games with teenagers online and buying leather jackets he can't afford. Then after the collapse of society he's somewhat timid and squeamish about dealing with walkers, but willing to put it all on the line when he thinks Lucille needs him to get more meds. Then, pushed into the failure of saving his wife into becoming the brutish thug we've known him as when he was first introduced on the show, and now in the present day where he seems to want to be a better person, but is still haunted by who he was and the fact that because of who he was he will never get the trust of the people who can now decide his fate. Yet despite of this, he's still committed to trying, despite the fact that he pretty much knows, as Carol warned him that if he stays in Alexandria, Maggie will kill him.

    We get some insight into Laura the Savior in this episode with Negan meeting up with her and her father in the early days, and it was from her he got the bat that he would later christen Lucille. With this information it becomes all the more unfortunate they killed Laura during season 10 since this information makes her even more of an interesting character. Here's someone who would have been with Negan since Day 1 of the Saviors, a co-founder of the Saviors even. Someone who we know had complete devout loyalty to Negan despite the fact that it now seems he betrayed her and her father shortly after meeting for the first time (though I guess it's possible he might never have admitted that to them). Yet, despite the long tenure of their relationship, she had a comparably low position in the Savior hierarchy when we first met her, only moving up the ranks to a meaningful position after the deaths and betrayals of several of Negan's top lieutenants like Dwight and Simon. Then she ended up being the one who saw where the wind was blowing in the final battle of the war and surrendered on behalf of the Saviors to end the war. From there, she apparently was well liked that early in the ninth season when visiting the Sanctuary, Darryl apologized to her after snapping at her, which is damned near unusually courteous of him towards a Savior, even post-war, and after the time jump she held a position on Alexandria's leadership council.
    It wasn't one of the kids, but rather one of the kids' dad he assaulted.
    According to Talking Dead, the news report we hear coming from the radio before she switches was word for word copied from news report delivered in Night of the Living Dead, and the one we hear reporting in this episode was the episode's writer. Other Walking Dead specific easter eggs in this episode include Lucille at one point wearing a Half Moon (Beta's pre-apocalyptic stage name) t-shirt and the sports team Negan coached at the high school he taught at was named the Saviors.
     
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  10. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And following the worst reviewed episode of the entire series is the best reviewed episode of the entire series. IMDB ratings: Splinter 5.1, Diverged 4.1, Here's Negan 9.5!
     
  11. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

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    Gotta wonder if the suits are going to start thinking, "Hey, maybe we should do a Negan spin-off show instead of a Carol/Daryl show!"
     
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  12. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Of course Negan is also the reason the ratings for the show tanked in the first place... Seems most of the audience just found him too much...
     
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  13. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

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    He definitely is a bit of a dichotomous enigma.

    He does seem to have the "lovable-oaf-worthy-of-redemption" side of the character down pat, and it's often enough to help us forget what a savage destroyer he was when first introduced. The whole character really is a testament to JDM's acting chops, IMO. My comment was wholly TUC, though. I don't at all think AMC would build a whole series around the potential lionizing of a mass murderer. I find this healthy spike in ratings for a Negan-focused ep quite intriguing, though.
     
  14. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    We'll see what happened when viewership numbers come out. Just because IMDB liked it doesn't mean too much.
     
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  15. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

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    Good point. :)
     
  16. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    While the maniacal leader on TWD has worn thin, audiences always wanted to see what made Negan that character; up to this point,there were minor hints about his past, but nothing suggesting he ever had anything close to a heart. Unlike so many fantasy TV series on over the past decade--right up to this period, villains were/are usually nothing more than a plot point with no true motives for their behavior or any development. They are just there for the heroes to run into. This time around, we see one of the most vile TV villains given a real backstory with a rich, mature foundation for the reason he turned into the Negan from the line-up, and it was wonderful.
     
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  17. Starbreaker

    Starbreaker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm catching up on these bonus episodes and I'm so tired of the Darryl/Carol bickering. I don't even know what they're fighting about anymore. And I definitely don't think Darryl can lead a show on his own at this point with five lines of dialogue an episode.
     
  18. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    B.J. and the Bear went for three seasons, and Bear had no lines at all. ;)
     
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  19. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think we need a part 2 to see him build up the saviors... because what/how he did it was "smart" though vicious... "People are a resource" was addressed here...and the statement by itself is a true one.. and his method of subjugating communities WAS effective (for a time; and DEFINITELY wrong)>

    He des have SOME limits... such as taking out "rapey Davey", and distraught over his cult follower who killed a family, including kids.

    But yeah, he did have that Evil Negan Smirk at the end

    Without a doubt, you are right about the tragedy. Negan, risking everything to SAVE her...and when i saw on Talking Dead, she had done it THAT NIGHT, making all his effort all for nothing. So we can see why his was so broken and heartless by the time we were introduced to him. His effort, of undeniable goodwill, was made worthless, and shattered the goodness.

    With Negan's reluctance... this is early on in the apocalypse, with little understanding of what death means in the new world. It is reminiscent of Morgan's inability to put down his wife's body. Which, wow... comparing those two...
    I had no idea that was a previous Savior (Laura). She was so non-descript...and now that she is dead...it would be hard to do anything with her in the future (other than below). But did they get her because she was the only person available?? I wonder if GAVIN might have been a better fit... he seems like he would have wanted to be a helper...but got stuck with Negan. ANd his lieutenant role he had seems like a good fit that Negan would have "rewarded" him for trying to help his wife.

    I think you are right about Franklin... that just seems like something that will have interesting results... such as perhaps Laura blaming Franklin for being in a situation where she has been assaulted, and sides with Negan. She becomes more vicious, and Franklin can't stay with her.


    I think you are right one with this. It will be interesting how it concludes...the journey will be wild.
    I would agree... definitely an A episode...maybe if they led with this, that could have helped the ratings over all.

    well they DID have a whle series on a rising drug lord (Breaking Bad). But yeah....i can NOT see it as a long term series. But i really felt like this episode COULD have been a 2 parter. Maybe based on the reception of this, we could get a part 2, which shows him building the Saviors (wondering how he got it done)

    Yeah, this was definitley well done....and we can see the "good" in Negan...and help us see why he should still survive

    ---
    I'd agree... they would need a lot of other characters to bounce off of. And it really should be just him and Carol finding survivors NOT connected to the Commonwealth or the other group. Maybe remnants of past groups (like the cannibals... surely someone else survived)

    ---
    A couple of last notes...

    = I thought Negan had said earlier int he show that his wife died PRIOR to the outbreak? If so, i don't mind this retcon (if it was at all), or if Negan told a white lie, so he would look "cooler". But that stuck in my brain.

    = i saw the beginning of Talking Dead, and clearly JDM had a blast with his wife. Hope they do something else together. He was also pretty self-effacing in that show.

    = So Negan is his FIRST name? I never heard of it before...is that Irish or something? I always thought it was his last name, that he turned into a one name thing like Prince or Madonna

    = i am not a big fan of these hallucinations, and it feels like i have seen a whole of them lately (Black Lightning in addition to TWD) ...but i know that especially with Covid, that might be the most effective way to have some meaningful "dialogue" in a safe way (filming wise)

    = Did anyone read the "Here's Negan" comics ( i think that's what came out, or was it novel?). Just curious how you felt the show was as a TV adaptation? Same quality? Better? Worse? From those IMDB ratings, I gather as good or better? In THAT version, did he actually get in trouble due to some bad behavior with the kids?
     
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  20. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Viewership bump for this episode was very low. 2.12 million vs 1.94 for the last one.